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Bowen
Posts:2

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| 10/15/2012 9:36 PM |
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Many people say German Shorthairs cannot compete with other waterfowl dogs and are not meant to be duck dogs. Are they right?
I have a 13 month old GSP. She is not my first dog but she is my first GSP and will hopefully be my first four legged hunting companion. I do not know about other owners but for me there were several things that appealed to me about getting a German Shorthaired Pointer. One being there sleek and athletic appearance in addition to their energetic personality. However, the most endearing attribute for me is their versatility as a hunting dog and companion.
I like to do several types of hunting but where I live here in GA unless I happen to become friends with a wealthy land barren, waterfowl is the hunting she and I will be doing the most. That being said I have read and have personally experienced frequent ridicule for selecting a GSP to be a duck dog. I know that they are not the most popular "duck dog" according to many however they are the most popular dog for me but I am starting to lose faith in her becoming a duck dog.
Sydney has been fast to learn and eager to please. She is very energetic and shows a strong desire to chase or track anything that would be consider wild game. That being said I have a couple of large problems that I can see with my pup. One she is gun shy and being that she is my first hunting dog I am not sure of how to break her of it.
As she has gotten older she has lost desire to retrieve...frizby, ball, rope, canvas dummy or training dummy it doesn't matter. If she shows any interest at all she prances to the object (does not run) and when it stops she moves on to something that she finds more interesting whether it be a flower or whatever catches her eye.
Finally the final draw back for my dream duck dog is that she is nervous in the water. She loves to play at the river and in the shallow water. I have been taking her since she first came home but if she has to swim she will usually not go into the water.
I know much of it is my fault and lack of knowledge on my part. However, I do not want her to suffer or not rise to her full potential because of my ignorance. I need help and fact of the matter is it is not something that I can just throw money at to solve my problem. I know that it takes time and patience...those things I do have I just need help with the steps and some encouragement that I am not alone.
I tried taking her for an hour session with a professional retriever trainer. He offered some helpful advice. Try live birds and feathers, get her excited about retrieving and start her in shallow water and slowly transition to deep water retrievals. Also start with a smaller caliber gun at a distance and work closer to her while giving her positive reinforcement. These things make sense to me but even that being said he felt the time and energy I would spend in this endeavor that I may come out better or with a better finished product if I were to start over from scratch.
The trainer of course tried to encourage me towards a labrador retriever instead but I don't want a labrador and my stubborn nature just feels more compelled to work harder with my GSP. He basically did not see them as equals when compared to a labrador; whether it be in competition or actual hunting and retrieving. I know different breads may be more suited for different types of hunting and I also know that within a bread of dog you still have different personalities the same as people. Is my dog just not of the right personality, am I asking her to do something that she is not well suited for or have I just neglected her training? What can I do to turn this around?
All comments and feedback is welcome.
Thank you,
Paul |
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DuckFever Central Oregon
 MH Posts:323


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| 10/15/2012 11:16 PM |
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| I commented on this same question in the Hunting section where you posted it. Again, I think it depends on the dog and their prey drive. |
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The worst day of hunting is better than the best day at work. |
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pixie bee
 MH Posts:4452


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| 10/16/2012 6:25 AM |
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IMO, prey drive is a factor, there's also temperment. |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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smatulewicz Michigan
 MH Posts:1197


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| 10/16/2012 8:53 AM |
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There are many on here who duck hunt with their GSPs. My husband does not duck hunt, but I couldn't see any reason Bella wouldn't take it. One major issue is going to be, however, that GSPs weren't bred with the brawn and warmth of a lab...so weather and temps need to be a factor and appropriate measures taken to keep your GSP warm. If your dog is gun shy, I hate to say it...but some where along the line you probably did something wrong. Whether it be, your dog was startled by some sort of loud noise and the situation was not treated appropriately, or you introduced a gun too soon and too abruptly. I believe it can be sorted out with time and patience. Don't move too quickly. Same with water. Some take to it immediately. I have a water nymph. Others need some time to build up to the idea. A lab may have been an easier choice if this was your only hunting agenda, but I for one don't think there's much a GSP can't do with appropriate training. |
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tgatto Lake in the Hills, IL
 MH Posts:411


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| 10/17/2012 10:24 AM |
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IMO, Pointers make fine duck-dogs - especially in warmer climates. Retrievers are more suited to colder water, and a different type of hunting (mostly flushing vs. pointing in regards to upland). The retrievers are more intelligent (top-10 according to Coren), however not too much more (GSPs are 17). True enough from a temperament, GSPs are more suited for tromping through brush (high energy) vs. sitting in a blind - but this is manageable. Temperament is a main difference when you consider how you train your dog (and subsequently how your dog learns). This is probably why your professional retriever trainer encouraged you to get a retriever. Based upon what I have seen, Retrievers can take more pressure, which means Force-training the retriever takes less time. I did it quite effectively (IMO) with my current dog, it just took a bit of time, and less pressure than I expected (from watching online videos of the FF process). My suggestion would be to get into a regular schedule with working/training with your dog. Break apart your ideal hunting experience, and train on individual elements. A good book on retriever, or pointer training would help develop a plan. Be careful about timing expectations, though, as this could lead to over-pressure with the dog, and subsequent regression/shyness, etc. One suggestion regarding swimming would be to work on it in a lake, or still water. I have heard of issues in teaching a dog to swim in moving water - even slowly moving water. You may have more success there. Good luck! |
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It is watching the dogs work that I thoroughly enjoy, and love. I could get by with just watching them work - if it weren't for all the training, and the joy they exhibit when they pick-up, and deilver to hand a bird that they pointed, and you shot. - Todd |
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chevyrulz
Posts:8


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| 01/07/2013 2:54 PM |
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baby steps
to break gun-shyness, you have to work up to it. same thing with water.
for gun intro, you're supposed to be playing with the dog while your buddy 100yds away fires off a cap gun or .22, then gradually get your buddy closer while you keep playing, the goal is to distract the dog from the noise, so it doesn't focus on the sound of the gun. eventually, you step up to a 12ga shotgun right over your dog. start with a cap gun & play fetch or something that will hold your dogs attention. gradually close the distance, if your pup stops playing & gets scared you moved to fast, start over @ a distance which your pup didn't get scared by. if done properly, & patiently, your dog will begin to associate gunfire with playtime.
another good drill after you've introduced the gun, is if your pup is inside on the other side of the door as you walk up to the door from outside to let the dog out, fire the capgun by the door before you open it, your dog should eventually associate gunfire with going outside
all of this is going to be a LOT harder & take a LOT more patience & time if your dog is already gun-shy. nothing is impossible
if the gun-shyness is so terrible the dog flees & hides even @ 75 or 100yds while you try to distract, then crate the dog, & stay next to the dog while your buddy fires from 100yds or so, after each gun shot, give the dog a treat, a really good one like ribeye trimmings or something. eventually, the dog should associate gunfire with food. there ain't much you can't teach through food motivation. then move on to the outside of the crate methods
as for water, start out slow try to run through some knee deep water & get your dog to follow. carry your dog out to start if you must, then run from the dog & hopefully it will give chase. or put the dog down next to you in shallow water & have a toy to toss a foot or 2 & practice short retrieves. you have to associate fun with the behavior you seek. be creative! |
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pixie bee
 MH Posts:4452


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| 01/08/2013 8:52 AM |
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another good drill after you've introduced the gun, is if your pup is inside on the other side of the door as you walk up to the door from outside to let the dog out, fire the capgun by the door before you open it, your dog should eventually associate gunfire with going outside if the gun-shyness is so terrible the dog flees & hides even @ 75 or 100yds while you try to distract, then crate the dog, & stay next to the dog while your buddy fires from 100yds or so, after each gun shot, give the dog a treat, a really good one like ribeye trimmings or something. eventually, the dog should associate gunfire with food. there ain't much you can't teach through food motivation. then move on to the outside of the crate methods I would reconsider these approaches. But, I have been know to be wrong before. |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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DuckFever Central Oregon
 MH Posts:323


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| 01/08/2013 9:23 AM |
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Posted By chevyrulz on 01/07/2013 2:54 PM
if the gun-shyness is so terrible the dog flees & hides even @ 75 or 100yds while you try to distract, then crate the dog, & stay next to the dog while your buddy fires from 100yds or so, after each gun shot, give the dog a treat, a really good one like ribeye trimmings or something. eventually, the dog should associate gunfire with food. there ain't much you can't teach through food motivation. then move on to the outside of the crate methods
Whatever you do I WOULD NOT do this. This could prove to be disastrous for the dog, especially if it is already scared at 75 - 100 yards, why would you then fire at 100 yards? Makes absolutely no sense unless you're wishing to permanently screw up you dog. Take it to a professional trainer or try the above mentioned approach, but instead of having the gunshots 100 yards away, start with them a mile away. Just little pops in the distance. If the dog loves to retrieve, throw bumpers or balls for them while the gun shots are going off (again around a mile away at first).
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The worst day of hunting is better than the best day at work. |
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DuckFever Central Oregon
 MH Posts:323


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| 01/08/2013 9:24 AM |
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| Hmm, I don't know why what I wrote is in quotes... |
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The worst day of hunting is better than the best day at work. |
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pixie bee
 MH Posts:4452


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| 01/08/2013 9:26 AM |
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You're a quotable guy  |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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RyanGSP
 MH Posts:432

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| 01/08/2013 11:07 PM |
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GSPs make great duck dogs but you have to keep weather in mind (they get cold fast especially when wet) and with young dogs you have to remember gunfire. I would hunt solo for a year then slowly add more guns. I purchased a coffin blind big enough for my GSP to lay in there with me as well. He lays up at the top near my head along my left arm. This way when I pop the doors open to take aim I dont have to worry about a dog bolting in front of the gun and he is able to sit up to mark downed birds. MOst of these pictures were taken in 2007 so he would have been 20 months.  |
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pixie bee
 MH Posts:4452


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| 01/09/2013 11:42 AM |
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That Ryan, such a show off Happy New Year Ryan |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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vanesavis18
Posts:1

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| 01/23/2013 3:04 AM |
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I don't know what type of these dog. |
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DuckFever Central Oregon
 MH Posts:323


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| 01/29/2013 5:07 PM |
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| Wow Ryan! Nicely done and great looking dog you've got there as well. |
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The worst day of hunting is better than the best day at work. |
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