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Tizziec
MH
Posts:66
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| 09/08/2012 6:52 AM |
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Hello all. Here to introduce myself and why I am here.
Name is Tizzie. I live in New Jersey, coastal. I share resnsibility of two dogs with my boyfriend. We do not live together, but I take as much time as I can at his home or mine with both dogs.
The dogs  doggie one, the 4.5 year resident,raised from a pup in the home, is an English springer spaniel named Buster ( or Baby). He originally came to the home as a pup with a senior springer in residence who sadly passed away about a year ago. Buster is a very happy, but not too bright dog who is often getting into trouble. He is quite spoiled by daddy and sadly not properly trained. He also suffers, or perhaps it is the rest of us who suffer, from his possessiveness over his human daddy. He is very hard to take anywhere due to his behavior. And yes, I have tried desperately to train daddy too! I have some luck with him as I am the disciplinarian since we got him, but we are at the point that he is set for doggie school in a few weeks. Love him, but he thinks he is the master of the house, and well... He lacks the brain power for that job
Enter doggie 2: Jake. Jake is a GSP, and new love of my life. He came from a shelter 2 weeks ago. 3 or so years old, never trained and we were told lived in an outdoor kennel near 100% of the time. He was adopted but returned once. He also has health issues. He is recovering from heart worm, which has caused a current possible pneumonia, on a second run of antibiotics, he had kennel cough when we brought him home, lymes, and is VERY underweight, and currently not keeping too much down due to cough and snot. However, he is a bundle of love and sweetness,extremely well mannered, even before training, and so far very receptive to my training at least. I have high hopes for him
Ok, problems  . Daddy is very emotional and soft hearted to a serious fault with dogs.. Hence busters behavior from being spoiled. He is also somewhat over reactive with every little scuffle the dogs get in, despite what I consider a lack of human effort to ease the transition. I have to do a lot of damage control on daddys heart to make sure he doesn't give up and return my jake. Now the resident dog is not thrilled with a new addition, though I have noticed he is working oddly hard with obeying ME, hehe. Anyway, in the home buster has been growling at jake, causing some fights, in certain rooms or when his favorite, and only toy "daddy" is near by. Out of his territories it is much better. I totTally get that this is normal. Jake is not innocent in all this,he is going for the classic ear hold to establish himself as mr alpha. I don't see the fights getting too aggressive but daddy is flipping out.
Also, jake, like most GSP it seems, love being with his humans a lot! He is being crate trained, and for now, unless I leave him alone to give buster some mommy time, is never alone. When it is attempted to leave him, just in a room alone.. Uh oh... Bark bark freak out. He is fine in a crate with a human in the room, but less than a minute after leaving he flips. I wouldn't worry too much as I figure time will help, but the neighbors just had twin baby girls. Trying to be nice about this bark training here. Also I worry that only jake is to be left in a crate while buster goes so far as to let himself out whenever he wants, from the back door. Yes we have come home to major snow in the kitchen. And yes, mommy and daddy argue over this. But I worry about what it is to crate one dog not the other, and sooner or later they will be home a good ten hours alone.
Figured I would just throw the whole shabang out there Nd see what responses are, so I can do what I have to to make this all work, and hopefully share with daddy to try to get him on the right side of his soft doggie heart, before too much chaos takes over. I am fine with the idea of time being key, but I am forced to look for shortcuts and speed training tips in order to make sure daddy doesn't give up too quick. Had to do a major daddy rescue on jakes second day and twice since.lease help me out... I love love jake, but daddy is already showing signs of backing out on doggy school for buster, and that is going to be more than essential to a happy home! Daddy is going to make me much greyer over the next few weeks as I fight to make sure buster gets proper training so that he can be nicer and more likable. And so that we can make this work with my new lap cat, I mean GSP Jake
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smatulewicz
Michigan
MH
Posts:1216
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| 09/08/2012 8:32 AM |
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Welcome Welcome! Kudos for taking in Jake who needed a home. Yes, you're right...time is key. But, so is appropriate correction, training, and socialization. Sounds like your main issue with the dogs fighting right now (as it is totally normal for dogs to be tolerating each other one minute and establishing pack order another) is that Buster thinks he is the pack leader of your entire pack. Without a human establishing otherwise, you're going to continue to see negative behavior in him. Jake may pick up on this too...so you need to establish who is who.
A great way to bond your dogs is to walk them together. Sometimes in a confined space like a home, or even sometimes during play that can turn from playful rough to testy rough can cause them to bout with one another. During a walk, the minds are active, their bodies are active, and all are walking for a common purpose. I have found dogs that were unsure of each other in a home before a walk, to come back to that same house allies after a good long walk.
Also watch your own emotions around the dogs. If your boyfriend is anxious about the two and worried they are going to test one another every time they are close...I guarantee the dogs are picking up on his anxiety.
Two of my friends just adopted female dogs. We recently got them all together. They walked around minding their own business just fine, but sometimes if all got together there would be slight scuffles. I had to keep reminding my friends not to panic and grab their dogs as they were only fueling what was normal dog behavior. three gals need to establish who will be who. Once they started showing more leaderesque behavior, the dogs were all fine...and even started to initiate play with one another.
Patience, consistency (you and boyfriend need to get on the same game plan), and time. Good luck! |
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Tizziec
MH
Posts:66
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| 09/08/2012 8:57 AM |
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Haha as you were typing this, the dogs were getting into it which over a cell phone sounds like a freight train plowing by. Of course it was all fine, till buster decided it was long enough for jake to be near daddy and all hell breaks loose, as soon as it settles, daddy is waving the hire flag telling me "I can't keep these two" while I have yet to get him to try one single approach to establishing himself as leader of the pack..... Ah sigh. He is coming over for coffee, and would SOS so so love for a quick breakdown, simplest approach to establishing daddy as the leader. I even tried to get him to hold down buster and bite his ear, which I admit to doing myself when he was about a year old, and I had enough of him thinking I could be treated like daddy... Momma don't play that game with dogs or kids haha... But for the most part, buster doesn't try to play me too much, as long as daddy isn't right there anyway.
I am beyond convicted that as soon as daddy is the head of the house, tensions will drop by a half at least. Good grief haha |
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smatulewicz
Michigan
MH
Posts:1216
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| 09/08/2012 9:26 AM |
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Approach number one would be not allowing Buster to "claim" him. We humanize this behavior in thinking "awe...they love me so much they don't want to share me with anyone". Well put it this way, most dogs claim and possess things and toys...so if you're getting ranked in the same category, I wouldn't think so fondly of it lol.
We reestablish our roles daily through normal daily tasks. Bella is not allowed to enter or exit a door before any human unless given the "OK". She is not allowed on furniture without permission (though she has decided this is irrelevant when home by herself lol). She must sit and wait calmly for her food to be served. We do not give commands we don't intend to reinforce if they are not followed immediately. It seriously takes consistency and patience. If my husband and I didn't train as a team and weren't on the same page with what we expected of our dog, she would be one confused pup as to what was expected, at when, with who... I suspect you have a bit of this problem as well. Some may think "wow that all sounds so stiff and mean", but we have a very happy, sweet, and confident girl who looks to us for direction and wants to please us and others. Dog's need order and routine.
You will find the greatest change in your dogs with daily training. Dogs enjoy learning and though they may resist at first...you'll find you have a happier more well rounded dog as a result. I think obedience classes are a great idea. It sounds like your boyfriend may be resisting anything he thinks maybe he can't do or that it will be too hard to train the dogs. Maybe he is content with his dog's status quo and would be fine with his behavior if there wasn't another dog in the mix. If this the case...sadly you aren't going to see much of a change.
When he comes over...I suggest doing some research online. Find approaches you think you both can handle. Since you live separate...you can start by training your dogs individually...you should both train with each dog. If the dogs are getting antsy and aggressive in the home...really, take them for a walk together. It will expend the energy and return them home more content and relaxed.
I personally think physically dominating dogs is an old approach. Where I do think that alpha and leadership comes naturally for any pack animal...I think it can be established without physically dominating (putting a dog on its back). I have seem this cause more issues with a confused or unstable dog.
When the three girls would have little tiff's when we got them all together last week, my friends saw quickly that pulling one dog away only made the other dog feel the need to continue going after it more. It got the point that evertime the oldest and most dominant dog walked near another, my friend would literally hold her breath and watch with anxiety. Her dog picks up on this, and in my opinion interprets it is "something about you (other dog) is making my owner very nervous...so I need to keep a close eye on you too". I would never do this with dogs I don't know, but because I know these dogs, if the most dominant start targeting my dog, rather than pulling Bella away and holding her by her collar (never a good idea, same reason you should never hold two fighting dogs by a leash..it makes it worse)...I would step in between the two and firmly say "AH AH"...at one point I even placed my foot on the dominant dog's side to prevent her from coming in any closer. She realized that I was not going to tolerate the behavior, and that there was already a leader in the group...and she didn't target either dog again. After that, they started playing together.
Oh, and it's not just that your boyfriend needs to be head of the house. You both do, and you both equally can be. Bella sees us both as equal alphas. The only difference I have noticed is that she seems to understand my husband is stronger, bigger, and the protector of the home. So when he is gone, she is a little more alert and protective than she otherwise would normally be. |
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Tizziec
MH
Posts:66
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| 09/08/2012 10:51 AM |
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I will definitely be sharing all of this with daddy. I personally take all advice to heart. I think I get looked upon as a bit of the cold or mean one, but being a single mom, boy have I learned that happiness is found in a good understanding of who makes the rules and who follows lol. Right now, I think my first battle will be to establish consistency with everyone involved in caring for the dog ( somewhat to my chagrin, it is myself, daddy, his 21 year old sone, his sister and niece and a few more) I would much rather keep interaction a little more confined to a few people working closely with jake until he is at least more adjusted to his new home and family, and trained on a few basics. I currently have quite a fear of too many cooks making all my effort and time go for nothing. I am trying to establish at least a basic line of approach with training that I am hoping everyone will adhear to. From what I have been reading, just being a GSP comes with its own challenges in the training department without adding to it lol.
I am so sure that with time and teamwork, everything is not only going to be perfectly fine, but end up being a very happy family. I just have to work to try to find a common page to work with. I am so happy to have found this forum, I can already see where it will help us silly humans, and make for much happier four legged friends
If I could keep jake here all the time for training I would, but I have found that it takes more than a miracle to combine a small house, a cat a bird and a hunting dog haaaaaaaa |
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Tizziec
MH
Posts:66
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| 09/09/2012 4:57 AM |
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Yesterday was good and bad. Good news is that Jake's health is looking better. I amnot sure what caused his sudden 36 hour down turn, but sticking to a strick diet and oneday'santibiotic seems to have madea world of difference. I am leaning towards a possible food allergy (he was being given everything under the sun) He is back to where he was before the episode, though still on some restrictions for a few weeks due to heart worm recovery.
Bad news... Two, not so small fights, and Daddy getting worried. Having not been there I can't say what the fights were over, but they were both inside the house, the kitchen to be exact. I should say here, that just over a mothn ago, Buster went through a phase where "daddy's" grown son had recently moved back home after 4 months away, and buster did NOT like him being in the kitchen (he would corner the kid, growl, show teeth and be plain nasty) Though the dog got over that, I still get nervous with him in the kitchen myself. All the fights also happen within close proximity to daddy, who is currently Buster's favorite "toy".
I am hoping today will allow me time to devote the entire day to working with the two dogs (and daddy). I will be printing all of this off, and really working on some of the strategies presented. I am planning on insisting the dogs be taken to completely nuetral ground (not buster's usual play fields or beach) and make a combination training day and perhaps family fun day.
Now, as the work week approaches, there is always a good chance the dogs will have to be left alone in the AM for a couple of hours. Does anyone have any advice, words of wisdom, when it comes to crating jake but not buster? For carious reasons, Jake will be being crated every time no one is home (last night he GUTTED his toy I got him just the night before, as well as hitting up a pair of shorts he pulled from the laundry basket. I know future exercise time will help this, but for now the health has him on activity restrictions... so he will chew away!) Buster had been crated as a young dog, until he dida strong man move and busted out (leaving me scratching my head as he greeted me outside, with a still closed and locked crate inside LOL) I am worried about this one crated, one free situation that is going to occur (So far Jake has not been left alone more than a very short period, and never yet with Buster home and free roming) |
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Texas Belle
Austin, TX
MH
Posts:7922
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| 09/09/2012 12:23 PM |
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| Crate Jake in a room where you can shut Buster out. I would also leave a radio on. If Jake is used to the crate it should not be a problem. |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
   
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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Tizziec
MH
Posts:66
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| 09/09/2012 12:48 PM |
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Thanks forthe crate advice. I will stake out an area today that will work if need be.
Took the boys, and the kid on a walk/training session in the park today. It went fairly well. God granted me a miracle, and Buster is still trying to impress mommy and really trying hard to please me. I gotta say... I am LOVING that part of all this HAHA There was one fight/argument between the boys, but I take full credit for that one... I got stuck with one dog under my butt on a bench and pulled him out bythe leash, while his face was way too close to the other... I triggered it! Daddy flipped, though I really really tried to tell him... MY FAULT calm down (working hardtokeep daddy a little calmer, as he is anxious about a fight every second they are within 10 feet of each other... little old me... I pull the both close right in front of my face to give them love and hugs LOL)
My shoulder is telling me... Need to spend some more time on leash training with Jake this week HAHA (and OWIES!) but I did FINALLY after 4 years... get Buster to walk nicely NEXT to me instead of pulling me along to the point of joint dislocation! YAY!!!!! I say fight or no fight... Fantastic progress made in the park (now if I can only get daddy to see that HAHA)
Took all advice given.. hence what I call a REALLY good day... now on to make some food for Jake's special current diet |
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4474
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| 09/10/2012 5:10 AM |
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| I have to take my daughter to school, when I get back I have some tips that hopefully you can follow and will help. |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4474
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| 09/10/2012 10:16 AM |
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Hi and welcome.
Without knowing anything I know that Buster is not very happy.
I also know that Jake is trying to fit in.
How to make everyone happy?
Set rules.
Start with food.
Tell the boys to sit, go prepare their food, if they get up tell them to sit and don't give food to anyone until they are both following the new rules.
Put the food in front of them and tell one to eat then the other.
They can and should eat near each other.
Do you give treats?
Good.
Have one sit on one side of you and the other on the other side.
About 10 feet or so apart.
Feed treats alternating between dogs.
No one can eat a treat that has dropped on the floor.
You pick that up.
Enforce sitting rules, and no scooting closer.
Make sure they take the food nicely from you.
Try to put a treat on their nose (one dog at a time) If they won't let you, work on it,maybe months, until you can and they don't eat it until you give the OK.
Do not allow unsupervised time. Teach "down". Each dog wil have their own space and "down there when told and STAY there until told to do otherwise.
All commands are to be obeyed until told to do otherwise. We do not allow a dog to choose when to break a command.
You have a leadership issue.
Decide who the leader is.
Your dogs aready have - guess what?
It ain't the humans.
But, don't worry - it's all fixable
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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Tizziec
MH
Posts:66
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| 09/11/2012 5:25 AM |
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I totally agree with the need for "humans rule". As it stands... when I am alone with them, they seem to accept that I am the boss (I am kinda of strick about being the boss with dogs, birds and kids.. I've earned it, though the cat has me beat ) A big problem is that since I met my BF over four years ago, I have never seen any of his dogs (Jake is number three since I have known him) treat him as the head of the pack, and it does become obvious in their behavior as soon as he walks in the room.
Now with Jake, I am trying to put my foot down, and make sure he takes the lead here. I am also hoping that the school Buster is heading to in a couple of weeks, will be able to make a dent in daddy (though I have my fears since it is the same school the older dog had gone to years ago). My BF absolutely and to a fault loves his babies, but it's that "to a fault" that gets us in trouble.
I will work with him on all your suggestions, it is close to what we do now, but with the fighting some of it can only occur with both of us there. When it is only one of us, it is often separate, though during the making ofthe dinner, they are both kenneled for now, in the same room (one person, plus food, plus a not so large kitchen has ot proved to be a safe thing yet) Weekends prove to be the best time for much of the work, since our weekday schedules are a bit opposite (he works days, I have classes at night) I Have found that there IS improvement when we do the alternating treats when we have them together, and when I am the one holding the treats.. Buster has gotten much much much better (to the point of nearly knocking me on my butt LOL) I tried some time with them together yesterday with one tied on a leash and the other with me, but I made the mistake of doing so before doggie 2 had his walk (my bad) but I learned from my mistake and will stick to the post walk intros where they seem to do much better.
With treats, traditionally I grown to tossing buster his (he used to take them nicely nut then started snapping for them) but he has gotten much better, and so have I. He also now sits and stays while I put something on the floor, and waits till I give him the go aheade and then calmly gets it (I am slowly trying to bring that same habit to his dinner time bowl ) I am seeing lots of imrpovement every day on many behaviors of both dogs, and I am hoping the BF sees that and sees that taking that stand is necessary to them being happy, and us being safe |
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Tizziec
MH
Posts:66
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| 09/11/2012 5:32 AM |
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| Can I just say that, one... love dogs, but have not had one since my youth (cat/bird house, and never enough room to intro a dog I would want to have) and I really have NO experience training them. What I am noticing, is that I have daily flashbacks to my daughter at about 18 months, and training her with "no" "down" "stay her for two seconds" and "STOP" LOL Dogs and toddlers seem to be on a very close level in my experience, and if I was able to train the kid to follow the rules, I should be able to teach the four legged babies LOL Big difference is that my daughter couldn't knock me over at 18 months, though she did like to lick my face HAHA |
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Splat
Illinois (Northern)
MH
Posts:3154
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| 09/11/2012 7:10 AM |
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| I have had dogs and horses my entire life and those are both animals that you need to train and have rules and boundaries with to be able to enjoy them... so when I had my kids I kinda followed the same lead as I did with my dogs and horses... my kids are very well behaved and I get lots of compliments on them... they are always invited to friends houses for over nights and all day... sometimes I worry that I was to strict with them but I don't really think so they have a very nice life and get to enjoy a lot of things because they do know how to behave... same thing for my dogs I can take them places cuz I know they will behave! |
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Splat
Illinois (Northern)
MH
Posts:3154
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| 09/11/2012 7:12 AM |
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| you just need to get your other half to see that if he makes some fixes and sets himself up as leader he will be able to enjoy the dogs so much more and without the stress! |
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smatulewicz
Michigan
MH
Posts:1216
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| 09/11/2012 1:34 PM |
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| HAHA... glad to hear it from someone with kids. I'm definitely a fur baby parent, but I know true parents can find it very offensive to compare the two. But, I can honestly imagine there are some HUGE similarities. BUT, then again...this is coming from the girl planning a birthday party for her dog this weekend, so maybe I am just a crazy fur parent. |
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Tizziec
MH
Posts:66
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| 09/11/2012 2:39 PM |
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| Hehe, nah, how can I take offense to comparing my kid to a dog when she bought a flower covere dog collar to wear herself, and enjoys closing herself into the kennel and barking to show the dogs how nice it is lol if she didn't occasionally stand on two legs, I might end up sending the dogs to school hahahaha |
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DLord
Holly Springs, NC
MH
Posts:89
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| 09/12/2012 6:35 AM |
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Smatulewicz, I'm right there with you in the "crazy fur parent" department.
When Archer & Zoe turned a year old this past February, I had a cake made for them and had a party! 
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Tizziec
MH
Posts:66
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| 09/12/2012 7:01 AM |
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| Lmao that cake is nicer than the last one I made for my kid's birthday! Haaa too cute! |
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smatulewicz
Michigan
MH
Posts:1216
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| 09/12/2012 12:28 PM |
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Love it! I still need to get the hats  |
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Max2
Oneonta NY
MH
Posts:1123
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| 09/13/2012 4:02 AM |
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| I have had dogs my whole life. Max is my 2nd GSP. With out a doubt (IMO) they are the smartest dog's I have had. The look on archer & zoe face in the last pic tells a lot of this breed ! I love the intense looks on their faces with their B-day hats. They are definetly taking it all in ! |
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Chris |
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