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weerubbertummy Ayrshire, Scotland
 MH Posts:726


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| 07/13/2012 12:39 PM |
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Okay so i'm really struggling with all of this because having done so much reading, i'm so aware of where i could go wrong and how simple mistakes could cause problems further down the line. I'm now settled on ultimately wanting to actually learn to shoot (in the future).
I've managed to arrange with a different farmer to allow me to use some of his land - young forest plantation with small fire breaks and also open moorland past this. It turns out that he also runs a pheasant shooting syndicate so he actually knows his stuff (unlike me ) and the land i'm allowed onto has a few scattered pheasants inc nests.
I have (please excuse the scatterbrained list - i got carried away):
210.5 whistle (she is recall trained to 2 pips), half pound dummy, 2xone pound dummies, 1xone pound dummy, 1 game dummy, pheasant pelt, pheasant scent. I'm really struggling on where to start and really scared of making a mistake on the first day and regretting it forever. Does anyone have an actual plan for starting from scratch? |
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Miss you forever Kintra baby xxx |
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pixie bee
 MH Posts:4448


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| 07/13/2012 1:15 PM |
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Not sure what you want to do. Are you wanting suggestions on how to/what to expect on your first hunt? The first hunting season is less about shooting and more about handling - the dog finding and learning to handle birds and you learning to handle your dog. Exposure to the hunting environment is what you both need. it will be good to have a dog that will whoa or sit,will recall and retrieve is good but can wait until next season. It will be good if you had a vision of what you want the final product to look like. Do you want her steady to fall,do you want a delivery with a sit,will you shoot birds she doesn't point. I say go out have fun and learn together. If you can get out with someone who hunts that will give you an idea of what you want and don't want. |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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pixie bee
 MH Posts:4448


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| 07/13/2012 1:19 PM |
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one thing i forgot - a BIG issue for a LOT of people is range. Dog goes out of sight for a few seconds and the owner gets nervous,starts calling the dog,and thing go downhill from there. I'm not saying let her do whatever,where ever but relax,let her work. |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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Texas Belle Austin, TX
 MH Posts:7835


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| 07/13/2012 2:03 PM |
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| Just remember there is very little you can do to truly mess up your dog. If you make a mistake just back up and retrain. Everyone makes mistakes, that is how you learn. Shorthairs are very forgiving dogs. |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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Rose
 MH Posts:362

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| 07/13/2012 2:57 PM |
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Lots of bird exposure helps. The perfect start/perfect finish DVDs are helpful too. Remember to have fun. Are you looking to shoot/hunt birds? Pheasant is delicious. I find the birds naturally teach the dogs. And the dogs are sometimes the ones teaching us. |
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weerubbertummy Ayrshire, Scotland
 MH Posts:726


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| 07/16/2012 12:05 PM |
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Thanks. I am struggling to even decide what it is i'm aiming for as i've never been involved in anything at all related to any hpr activities - hopefully meeting the club in August will help me visualise what it is i want to do. My instincts tell me to expose her to as much as possible (like you all have said) but to maybe use the ground available to work on retrieves, and maybe even directional commands? And also the stop whistle etc As she's still pretty young these are commands that i would really just like to try in the environment but will keep it fun.
On the subject of range - so far her recall has been fantastic (except when retrieving the dummy, in the garden only). I did work hard on that from early on and having the use of a field nearby was brilliant. I've spent a lot of time practising changing direction to keep her attention, hiding from her when out and about, injecting a LOT of unpredictabillity ie producing the tennis ball, fave food, or a tug toy when she returns to the recall whistle. I've also done a lot of "this way" as a command, and i've never actually put the leash on her after a successful recall - i put it on when she sees me getting a treat out for her but without a command.
For that reason i am comfortable with her being out of sight as she does check in on me - but i'm aware that i'll probably be eating my words soon as she is getting older and more independent, plus you never really know whats around the corner too Because of all that i do encourage her to range out but i make a point of hiding from her on a regular basis, and as i said before i try to be unpredictable and fun.
Rose - the perfect start/perfect finish dvds i did try to get hold of them but when i contacted the breeder/trainer who produced the dvd with regards to whether they could be played on my dvd player (different territory) i got no response. I did read on some forums that they arent playable over here unfortunately. I have Rory Major dvds and Tom Brechney, the latter being purely gsp, the former being hpr in general, so hopefully some of that info will sink in with me 
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Miss you forever Kintra baby xxx |
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tgatto Lake in the Hills, IL
 MH Posts:411


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| 07/16/2012 12:58 PM |
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I would second the notion to relax, and enjoy watching the dog. If you have trained her to sit, come... basic obedience, then you have built a solid foundation. Introduction to birds is the fun part. The one thing that I have learned about dogs (one of the more valuable things) is that (at least for the "casual user" like us) dogs are highly resilient to mistakes in training - sometimes they learn in spite of us, instead of because of us. I can't tell you the number of times I have accidentally "nicked" my dog, for example - essentially punishing her for no reason on accident. We have enough of a working relationship that I give her a pet, apologize, and try again/keep at it. With repetition, overall consistency is important, vs. the ones y-twosy things that "happen". SO don't worry about making mistakes.
First couple of times out, forget all expectations you have set so far (that I have read). For me, I only use 2 commands the first 3, or 4 times out - Sit (because it is a staple, and a safe place to start), and Come (or recall whistle) to get the dog closer when ranging (or bring her around on a known bird location). All the rest will develop with time. Remember that this is a process the dog, and YOU need to go through with each other. The hunting, and obedience work will all merge together in time.
Sadie's first bird pointed (in training):

Sadie's first bird hunted:

Keep us posted! It is a VERY EXCITING time for you, and your dog!! Get out there and HAVE FUN! Also remember (I would be remiss if I didn't mention it), my wife's definition of a "successful" hunt is "one in which dog, and handler come back home safely" . Of course, if only one would return, I sometimes think she would prefer the dog.... |
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It is watching the dogs work that I thoroughly enjoy, and love. I could get by with just watching them work - if it weren't for all the training, and the joy they exhibit when they pick-up, and deilver to hand a bird that they pointed, and you shot. - Todd |
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pixie bee
 MH Posts:4448


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| 07/16/2012 1:28 PM |
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If you are afraid of loosing her then it's probably a good thing to go with someone who will be more relaxed about that. If you call her too much she may loose confidence/be confused and not search as well try turning her rather than recalling her Expect commands to be of lesser importance to her Dogs will prioritze and guess where you fall on that list? |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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weerubbertummy Ayrshire, Scotland
 MH Posts:726


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| 07/19/2012 11:09 AM |
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Her recall is the one thing i am comfortable with and i've been encouraging to range out for a few months now (except during the tennis ball obsession ) - the only time i do struggle is when i've initially thrown the dummy for her in the garden.
Well, we ventured out onto our borrowed temporary training ground and just spent a couple of hours exploring and playing - i decided that there's really no rush and to make the most of making it fun the maintaining her focus, so we spent a lot of time playing with her ball, and me lying down in the long grass (getting bitten by clegs ) hiding from her. I didnt even really do recall, i just let her explore and play. She did flush a pheasant although obviously there was nothing graceful in it at this stage - picked up the scent>rushed in>bye bye birdie.
A couple of pics and a vid of what i think will be an amazing training area - only 20 mins walk from my house too!

Catching flies 

http://s1137.photobucket.com/albums/n519/peoplesndogs/Keely/?action=view¤t=083-1.mp4
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Miss you forever Kintra baby xxx |
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tgatto Lake in the Hills, IL
 MH Posts:411


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| 07/19/2012 12:50 PM |
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| That sounds about right for a first bird - exactly what Sadie did. Kinda pokin' around and... BOOM! Out comes the bird! It will take her a couple of those before her instincts kick-in, and she starts pointing. Took Sadie two birds. At this point, it is better to let them fly away - it will encourage her standing-off, and pointing of game. Eventually, though, I like to let them get one, or two. I usually pluck the flight feathers of a quail, allow her to point it (once they are pointing), and I toss it up, and fire a blank pistol a couple of times (plucking the feathers ensures I "Hit" the bird (even if I am firing blanks at this point!)). And just like that, you are ready to start hunting over her (provided she is safe (i.e., steady) to shoot over). But, you are at a great point if you have had her under control, and flushed a bird already!! Congrats! |
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It is watching the dogs work that I thoroughly enjoy, and love. I could get by with just watching them work - if it weren't for all the training, and the joy they exhibit when they pick-up, and deilver to hand a bird that they pointed, and you shot. - Todd |
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