|
| Author |
Messages |
|
jrandash
Posts:19

 |
| 07/05/2012 9:27 AM |
|
what is the best way to teach you dog to quarter the feild |
|
|
|
|
tgatto Lake in the Hills, IL
 MH Posts:411


 |
| 07/05/2012 11:11 AM |
|
I don't know about a "best" way, but I will share the way I "train" to quarter. Starting with obedience, I make sure my recall (with whistle) is solid. I usually start in a confined, grass field (water retention areas work well, as they are usually man-made, rectangular depressions) so I have full visibility of the dog. I heal her to the down-wind side of the field (so I work into the wind), then I start walking the field in a zig-zag pattern, about 45 degrees to the direction I am working). When the dog crosses the center-line (when she goes from my Left to my Right, or my Right to my Left), I change direction 90 degrees (maintaining approximately 45 degree to the field). If the dog ranges too far, I do a recall whistle. As I recall less, I flatten my zig-zag to the center-line. As she gets better, I move to higher cover. If/When birds are available, I will spin and plant birds on the edges of the field, where she can find them, and tailor my zig-zag where she will get to them in-range. I have read that it helps to keep a bird, or wing in a pocket. When they range too far, drop the bird/wing, and whistle-in (make sure the dog doesn't see you place the bird/wing. My own experience, though, is that if the recall is effective, the dog will maintain range naturally with experience. I did try to keep a wing with Sadie, but she wasn't really interested in wings after her first couple of times out. She would just pick them up and chew on them a bit, then spit it out, and continue working.
Since training Sadie to retrieve, I now work her quartering drills, but hit a "Whoa!" whistle, and throw a bumper mark at random points in the field, then have her "Fetch!" (or recall, then fetch). Keeps her thinking, and reinforces other commands, while maintaining the Field-work expectations.
Hope that helps! If not, you may look online. Try this article: www.gundogsonline.com/Article/establishing-effective-pattern-hunting-dogs-Page1.htm |
|
It is watching the dogs work that I thoroughly enjoy, and love. I could get by with just watching them work - if it weren't for all the training, and the joy they exhibit when they pick-up, and deilver to hand a bird that they pointed, and you shot. - Todd |
|
|
pixie bee
 MH Posts:4450


 |
| 07/05/2012 12:42 PM |
|
Food for thought - is there a reason to teach quartering? Will you be wild bird hunting or preserve hunting? |
|
"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
|
|
|
tgatto Lake in the Hills, IL
 MH Posts:411


 |
| 07/05/2012 2:28 PM |
|
One thing to point out with Quartering (especially when on birds) is that the dog will follow its nose (and should!). So, a good, effective quartering pattern can effectively be taught in a controlled training environment (and it should be generally controlled, which is why I start in a grassy field), but once in field on birds, I let the dog roam a lot more than I do in training, relying on just the whistle to control range. I look for a general back/forth, Zig-Zag motion while on birds, but the dog may favor one side or the other of me. If it makes sense (i.e., hunting the down-wind side of me), I let it ride. I usually find out that the dog knows more about where the birds are than I do . |
|
It is watching the dogs work that I thoroughly enjoy, and love. I could get by with just watching them work - if it weren't for all the training, and the joy they exhibit when they pick-up, and deilver to hand a bird that they pointed, and you shot. - Todd |
|
|
Texas Belle Austin, TX
 MH Posts:7843


 |
| 07/05/2012 10:47 PM |
|
| I have never had to teach mine to quarter. They have always stayed out in front and quarter on their own. If I want them to head a different direction I just walk that way. They also adjust on their own to the terrain and how far out in front they hunt. |
|
Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
|
|
tgatto Lake in the Hills, IL
 MH Posts:411


 |
| 07/06/2012 9:04 AM |
|
Just from my perspective, it is not really the quartering that is important, it is establishing range, and building trust in the dog to thoroughly work the field. I have found that when I work Quartering drills in training, I feel more comfortable about allowing the dog to work their own way when hunting. I have had dogs (especially in late-season, early spring, hunts at clubs, or preserves) go straight out and back in fields on paths made by previous hunters. I feel more comfortable when I can see the side of the dog occasionally, rather than the nose, or back-end. I find I have more trust in the dog (my issue, not the dog) when I have worked with it in training on quartering patterns. In general, I believe trust in your dog is more the issue. I have had other hunters question if my dogs may have missed birds in a field. Experience shows that it is best to say, "I don't know... Let's hunt it again and see", which usually yields the same result (no birds). They usually don't question the dog again after a nice long walk with no birds . So, I think that is the crux of the issue. PB and TB trust their dogs, I build trust through training quartering. In general, Training is as much for the handler as it is for the dog. |
|
It is watching the dogs work that I thoroughly enjoy, and love. I could get by with just watching them work - if it weren't for all the training, and the joy they exhibit when they pick-up, and deilver to hand a bird that they pointed, and you shot. - Todd |
|
|
Texas Belle Austin, TX
 MH Posts:7843


 |
| 07/06/2012 12:18 PM |
|
| Tgatto good point. I learned with 2 pros that drilled me with trust your dog. I find myself telling students that all the time when I teach obedience. That trust goes for anything you do with your dogs. |
|
Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
|
|
pixie bee
 MH Posts:4450


 |
| 07/06/2012 2:39 PM |
|
Quartering looks really nice. It's my opinion that it has little practical use in the text book example of the windshield wiper fashion. After a dog has a few seasons behind it and bird finds they learn to work the wind and terrain more effeciantly,check likely places and objectives. Intelligence at work. If a dog is exclusively quartering fields they are not checking the woods. Pheasant like to hangout under the pines after they leave their roost late morning - where I hunt, anyway. It's not so much that I trust my dogs - it's more that I rely on their nose and past experiences to find game. We will walk one 1/2 then the other 1/2 of a field. Upland hunting is about walking. No way to get around it - at least not where I live. I leave it up to the dog and if I think they missed something or I want to cover an area I think they went past too fast we just direct the dog over there or re-walk it. Whistles work well in turning a dog,so do hand signals. At least twice every season my dog out hunt my husband - by that I mean my husband is SURE there are no pheasant where the dog is pointing. I will even go and beat the brush,nothing - THEN up comes a pheaz. Dogs KNOW! Just my opinions |
|
"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
|
|
|
Texas Belle Austin, TX
 MH Posts:7843


 |
| 07/06/2012 6:20 PM |
|
| Pixie that is exactly what I mean when I say trust your dog. Trust them to know how to work the wind and field and to know where the birds are. |
|
Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
|
|
weerubbertummy Ayrshire, Scotland
 MH Posts:726


 |
| 07/07/2012 1:48 AM |
|
From the point of view of someone who is reading up on hpr training this is really interesting. I had noticed that there wasnt much reference to quartering on this forum compared to uk general gundog forums where the majority of posters own cockers and springers. I did watch a dvd recently by Tom Brechney who breeds and works with gsps and he trains them to quarter, although it's probably more along the lines of what tgatto described in that he made use of changing direction to reinforce what the dog was already doing and trying to increase the distance. |
|
Miss you forever Kintra baby xxx |
|
|
tgatto Lake in the Hills, IL
 MH Posts:411


 |
| 07/09/2012 9:00 AM |
|
This is great discussion! We may be on the border between the Training section of the forum, and the Hunting side of the forum. Quartering is something that is pretty specific to the tactics you may use when hunting.
Yeah, I really didn't mean for it to be "textbook example" of "windshield wiper fashion", however I do see value, personally, in reinforcing the commands for bending, recall whistle, and hand signals in creating a transition between the obedience, and field-work. I think Quartering drills during field training can create this, especially when birds are scarce (as in my situation for training). As I stated before, it also builds my trust in the dog that when there are not birds, she will default to the quartering pattern (roughly) when we are hunting, and that (as a counter-point) when she is not acting like I expect, there is probably a reason.
One other specific situation I find useful with a quartering pattern (especially with a young dog) is with early-season, multiple running birds that are being pushed. If the dog zones on one, the others will inevitably double-back. Slowly working the field, with a solid quartering pattern helps the young dog identify the situation, locate birds that may have doubled-back, and increase the effectiveness. It gives a solid base to build upon with experience.
I also like a dog to quarter in the woods. We usually work the edges more, having the dog quarter between a hunter on the outside, and the dog handler on the inside of the woods. Now, for tree-lines, on the other hand (trees planted between fields with some grass to break wind, catch dust), there is usually not enough space to quarter (nor need to). So, I like to work the dog on the down-wind side of the line where possible.
To Weerubbertummy's point, I also like quartering as a drill to control range (both to increase, but also to decrease range). I think it helps build the dog's confidence, as well as the Handler, and helps to build that cooperative effort between dog and hunter. I know a lot of trainers work quartering for different reasons (Brechney, Dobbs, Hickox, Lauber to name a few). I don't know if Evan Graham works Quartering, or not (although it appears he does, looking at some of the forums, and articles on SmartWork) - PB could probably provide more on that. It is a unique issue specific to Upland Hunting, though - that is the truth! |
|
It is watching the dogs work that I thoroughly enjoy, and love. I could get by with just watching them work - if it weren't for all the training, and the joy they exhibit when they pick-up, and deilver to hand a bird that they pointed, and you shot. - Todd |
|
|
pixie bee
 MH Posts:4450


 |
| 07/09/2012 3:18 PM |
|
Pointing dogs don't have a need, if their nose is good and they are using it correctly, to actually cover a lot of ground thru quartering. I know I am probably not expressing this correctly. I believe a dog should be using the wind more than a quartering pattern. Dogs should be checking objectives. Quartering can burn a lot of energy. If the method is not putting up more game then it's wasted energy,IMO. Sometimes my dogs skip entire patches of fields. Soooo, we go back and check them out and yep the dog was correct,nothing there.A dog who was taught to quarter may go there and this would be ineffecient and I would question the dog as an effective hunter. |
|
"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
|
|
|
tgatto Lake in the Hills, IL
 MH Posts:411


 |
| 07/09/2012 4:16 PM |
|
I think we are discussing the same point. To make myself clearer, I hunt on a club preserve, so tight control of the dog is required - Strips of cover, multiple hunting parties in the fields, and lots of birds. I have found, over time, that quartering drills work like Double-T patterns works with casting - they re-inforce commands, build trust and confidence. Birds will never fall in a Double T, and I don't expect the dog to run a quartering pattern while hunting. BUT - obedience, confidence, and trust are important expectations that are built upon the drills in training, and advanced with experience in hunting (for the handler, and the dog). Again, especially for the pup still learning. If I did more wild hunting, or hunting on horseback, or ATV, I could definately see your point - quartering is a waste of time. Let the dog roam, find, and point the bird, then move in for the shot. It would be a lot more effective. |
|
It is watching the dogs work that I thoroughly enjoy, and love. I could get by with just watching them work - if it weren't for all the training, and the joy they exhibit when they pick-up, and deilver to hand a bird that they pointed, and you shot. - Todd |
|
|
pixie bee
 MH Posts:4450


 |
| 07/09/2012 5:40 PM |
|
I agree with your point in using voice,whistle,etc to turn a dog that is passing by areas or a dog that is searching in too much of a straight line. In my photobucket videos,I can post the link again, there are two videos of me walking w/o a gun and the dog searching. he knows we are not hunting, but he does a nice job of how I feel a dog ought to quarter a field. Because he knows we are not hunting he stays a bit closer and checks in a little too often, but in the one video,once he realises there is a bird - I don't see him until I walk over to him on point. |
|
"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
|
|
|
|
| You are not authorized to post a reply. |
|
|
|
ActiveForums 3.7
|
You must be logged in to use this module.
|
 |
Membership: |
 |
Latest:
misskristine |
 |
New Today:
0 |
 |
New Yesterday:
0 |
 |
Overall:
3206 |
 |
People Online: |
 |
Visitors:
88 |
 |
Members:
0 |
 |
Total:
88 |
Online Now:
|
|
|
|
|