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|05/24/2012 11:15 AM
Of course we must keep in mind that there are any number of
participants in the world of showing dogs that do, in fact, play the game
straight and these folks are Pro handlers, owner handlers, judges and any other
combination you choose to think of. The problem is that if you expose those that
don't play the game on the up and up all to often you are the one that suffers.
That's when you are told, "if you don't like the way the game is played then
don't play the game". I love the dogs, most of the people and going to and being
involved in the show world. The satisfaction is coming out on top without taking
part in the nonsense that we all know is going on.
a message dated 4/6/2012 9:21:46 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
Sadly I have witnessed this too. And now
AKC allows them to solicit assignments.
From: Carol Cronk
Sent: Fri, Apr 6, 2012 6:39
Subject: RE: [gsp-l] Re: [gsp-l] owner handler judging
The real sad thing is that
judges are not just putting up Handlers because they’re Handlers they will
also put up Handlers that belong to a certain club so they will be asked to
come judge at that clubs shows. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve
been waiting for a photo and heard judges “asking” handler “now do I get to
judge at your clubs show”. Having been in All-Breed Clubs I have seen
this first hand, judges from the east like to come to the west and so on, they
know who belongs to which clubs. I guess it is just like Politics only
they “Lobby” for assignments in areas of the country they like or would
like to visit.
Home of CH Berihill
Bye Bye Love JH "CANDI"
Home of Briarfields
Autumn Connection JH NAVHDA NA Prize II "CASH"
Home of the 2005 Westminster
BIS NSC, BIS, BISS CH Kan-Points VJK Autumn Roses "CARLEE"
no longer waste money entering under certain judges. I usually give them
a couple of chances but if they show me they are judging the people instead of
the dogs, I no longer give them entries. It is sad to have to sit out of
certain shows that are nearby or where we love the venue, but at the price of
travel and entries these days, I will wait for judges where I at least feel I
might have a chance.
Donna, I agree, but it is hard when all
of the local shows that someone attends are usually hiring the same judges
over and over again, which IMO are not good judges. I have to just sit
and wait, sometimes a long time for a show who has decent judges. That
is frustrating as well.
This has been going on since the
beginning of dog shows. The solution is quite simple, just don't show to
that judge again. It's like when a politician is elected - if he/she
sucks, then don't vote for him/her next time. You can't file a complaint
and get them out of office. Just like you can't file a complaint against
a judge because he/she only picked a handler.
I agree, Dena and wish there was a
I'm fine when losing to a better
dog/bitch. But I'm thoroughly discouraged when a Judge puts up a lesser
standard just because of what is on the other end of the lead. I've
heard Judges say, why didn't I see this dog/bitch in my group ring
yesterday? Well, it's the handler vs. standard vs politics vs personal
favorites vs a well advertised dog/bitch. There are many
scenarios. One time in group, a Judge walked down the line doing
her final look; however, she didn't look at the dog/bitch - she looked at
who was on the other end of the lead.
How are Judges held
accountable for awarding the standard? Are they held to ethics?
Do we need to file a complaint when they don't? So then what
happens - do the powers that be keep an eye on that judge? And if so,
how closely do they monitor and address the situation? Where and how do
we find resolve in this? Like our government, are the dog shows so
tied up in politics there won't be any resolve?
Please don't get me wrong, I do respect
professional handlers and professional owner/handlers for all that they
do. Some have handled our girl and many have been my mentors. It's
the Judges that need to be held accountable for rewarding the standard not
There are many scenarios that you can
take into account in the show ring. I handled my dogs in the ring, group ring
and specialty shows and did well with them. Who else may be in the ring to
influence the results. Let's see, Pro Handlers, Pro Handlers that are
owners, Owners that are judges, and the possibilities go on and on.
The other possibility is the judge that has a tight schedule and may avoid
having to judge the dogs again in the breed ring so he/she chooses
an owner handled dog just to move it along. Pro handlers are used for a
whole bunch of reasons, the most obvious is that they can bring out the best
in your dog. Will the next thing be "Breeder/owner handled" dogs?
Keep in mind I am not being negative, just thinkin' what the results of this
NEW thing may be.
n a message dated 4/5/2012 11:20:36
A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, firstname.lastname@example.org writes:
Soooo true! Bonnie, I don't envy your
neck of the woods, it's the battle of the handlers more than who is the top
Our standard is being disregarded and the judges are doing
whatever the hell they want and putting their personal preferences before
what is correct form and function.
I just removed my special from
weeks of the Eastern show scene (and it's not exclusive to that area) so I
know what I'm talking about!
In a message dated 4/4/2012 8:50:15
P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, email@example.com writes:
I will put my two cents worth here
and send a HIGH five to Terry. I am a breeder/owner/handler, been in
the breed for about 15 years with a break to raise children and I swore I
would not be forced out of showing but it is sure getting close. I love
this breed and I am getting soo heartbroken showing in the breed ring.
Please do not think I am a novice. I am not kennel blind, I do a
decent job, if not better than most in showing my dogs and my dogs are in
great condition, etc. I know my dogs faults and understand most of
the time when they do not place. I have also spayed and neutered dogs I
have finished, knowing just because a dog is a champion, does not mean
he/she should be bred. Showing used to be for breeding stock, not any
more. The Pros IMO, are taking over and the judges seem to lack the
education on breed standard and/or delve into the political arena. Showing
is almost a business now a days. AKC will run itself into the ground
eventually due to the lack of priority of the owner/handlers. That
is how showing dogs started, with the breeder/owner/handler and now we are
definitely in the minority.
Off my soap box and going back into the
Great post Vicki...In total
agreement. I got my first GSP out of the Newspaper back in 1981.
Knew NOTHING about showing until 1982 when I went to a local match show
here on LI. (I was into horses..LOL) Met some show folks there
who were training puppies. Well, the rest is history. In 1984 I
got a beautiful show quality bitch. That bitch I finished her myself.
She became #5 GSP for a while. In '87 and '88 she was in the top 4 finalist
at Westminster with an entry of 40 with NOVICE ME handling
her. This doesn't happen any more. Here in the NE, handlers have
taken over. Sorry folks...JMO
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