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gsp4me
MH
Posts:92
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| 05/24/2012 11:15 AM |
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This discussion has been enlightening to me. At least my perception of how the breed ring has changed for GSP’s does not seem to be all in my head!! J Vicki From: gsp-l-request@shorthairs.net [mailto:gsp-l-request@shorthairs.net] On Behalf Of Carol Cronk
Sent: Friday, April 06, 2012 4:35 PM
To: gsp-l@shorthairs.net
Subject: RE: [gsp-l] Re: [gsp-l] owner handler judging The real sad thing is that judges are not just putting up Handlers because they’re Handlers they will also put up Handlers that belong to a certain club so they will be asked to come judge at that clubs shows. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been waiting for a photo and heard judges “asking” handler “now do I get to judge at your clubs show”. Having been in All-Breed Clubs I have seen this first hand, judges from the east like to come to the west and so on, they know who belongs to which clubs. I guess it is just like Politics only they “Lobby” for assignments in areas of the country they like or would like to visit. Carol Cronk Autumn's GSP's Home of CH Berihill Bye Bye Love JH "CANDI" Home of Briarfields Autumn Connection JH NAVHDA NA Prize II "CASH" Home of the 2005 Westminster BIS NSC, BIS, BISS CH Kan-Points VJK Autumn Roses "CARLEE" I no longer waste money entering under certain judges. I usually give them a couple of chances but if they show me they are judging the people instead of the dogs, I no longer give them entries. It is sad to have to sit out of certain shows that are nearby or where we love the venue, but at the price of travel and entries these days, I will wait for judges where I at least feel I might have a chance. Donna, I agree, but it is hard when all of the local shows that someone attends are usually hiring the same judges over and over again, which IMO are not good judges. I have to just sit and wait, sometimes a long time for a show who has decent judges. That is frustrating as well. This has been going on since the beginning of dog shows. The solution is quite simple, just don't show to that judge again. It's like when a politician is elected - if he/she sucks, then don't vote for him/her next time. You can't file a complaint and get them out of office. Just like you can't file a complaint against a judge because he/she only picked a handler. I agree, Dena and wish there was a solution!! I'm fine when losing to a better dog/bitch. But I'm thoroughly discouraged when a Judge puts up a lesser standard just because of what is on the other end of the lead. I've heard Judges say, why didn't I see this dog/bitch in my group ring yesterday? Well, it's the handler vs. standard vs politics vs personal favorites vs a well advertised dog/bitch. There are many scenarios. One time in group, a Judge walked down the line doing her final look; however, she didn't look at the dog/bitch - she looked at who was on the other end of the lead. How are Judges held accountable for awarding the standard? Are they held to ethics? Do we need to file a complaint when they don't? So then what happens - do the powers that be keep an eye on that judge? And if so, how closely do they monitor and address the situation? Where and how do we find resolve in this? Like our government, are the dog shows so tied up in politics there won't be any resolve? Please don't get me wrong, I do respect professional handlers and professional owner/handlers for all that they do. Some have handled our girl and many have been my mentors. It's the Judges that need to be held accountable for rewarding the standard not personal preferences. There are many scenarios that you can take into account in the show ring. I handled my dogs in the ring, group ring and specialty shows and did well with them. Who else may be in the ring to influence the results. Let's see, Pro Handlers, Pro Handlers that are owners, Owners that are judges, and the possibilities go on and on. The other possibility is the judge that has a tight schedule and may avoid having to judge the dogs again in the breed ring so he/she chooses an owner handled dog just to move it along. Pro handlers are used for a whole bunch of reasons, the most obvious is that they can bring out the best in your dog. Will the next thing be "Breeder/owner handled" dogs? Keep in mind I am not being negative, just thinkin' what the results of this NEW thing may be. n a message dated 4/5/2012 11:20:36 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, gspfreak@aol.com writes: Soooo true! Bonnie, I don't envy your neck of the woods, it's the battle of the handlers more than who is the top dog. 
Our standard is being disregarded and the judges are doing whatever the hell they want and putting their personal preferences before what is correct form and function.
I just removed my special from weeks of the Eastern show scene (and it's not exclusive to that area) so I know what I'm talking about!
Tracy In a message dated 4/4/2012 8:50:15 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, gsp4me@hughes.net writes: I will put my two cents worth here and send a HIGH five to Terry. I am a breeder/owner/handler, been in the breed for about 15 years with a break to raise children and I swore I would not be forced out of showing but it is sure getting close. I love this breed and I am getting soo heartbroken showing in the breed ring. Please do not think I am a novice. I am not kennel blind, I do a decent job, if not better than most in showing my dogs and my dogs are in great condition, etc. I know my dogs faults and understand most of the time when they do not place. I have also spayed and neutered dogs I have finished, knowing just because a dog is a champion, does not mean he/she should be bred. Showing used to be for breeding stock, not any more. The Pros IMO, are taking over and the judges seem to lack the education on breed standard and/or delve into the political arena. Showing is almost a business now a days. AKC will run itself into the ground eventually due to the lack of priority of the owner/handlers. That is how showing dogs started, with the breeder/owner/handler and now we are definitely in the minority.
Off my soap box and going back into the shadows. 
Vicki-Stormwynd.
Great post Vicki...In total agreement. I got my first GSP out of the Newspaper back in 1981. Knew NOTHING about showing until 1982 when I went to a local match show here on LI. (I was into horses..LOL) Met some show folks there who were training puppies. Well, the rest is history. In 1984 I got a beautiful show quality bitch. That bitch I finished her myself. She became #5 GSP for a while. In '87 and '88 she was in the top 4 finalist at Westminster with an entry of 40 with NOVICE ME handling her. This doesn't happen any more. Here in the NE, handlers have taken over. Sorry folks...JMO
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