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coop
Wilmington, OH
Posts:17
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| 05/15/2012 8:56 AM |
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I need ideas,please, on how to keep the basic obed. training(sit, stay, come, down) fun. Murphy just turned 1 year old and his response is still not 100% on these commands. I've read not to "drill" him because they can become bored very quickly(which I've experienced), so can you all give me ideas on how to avoid this? Also, what, specifically, type of "job" do I need to give him?
(This is our first GSP)
Thanks so much .
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4448
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| 05/15/2012 9:21 AM |
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First question I will ask:
is he bored from drilling or is he flipping you the paw?
My guess is that you have not thoroughly taught the commands
I would ask what corrections you use for non compliance
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4448
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| 05/15/2012 9:25 AM |
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forgot to address the job -
how about starting with DOWN for 15 minutes
if he's bored - then he'll fall asleep 
if he gets up then he's not being cooperative
I believe you may be experiencing a cooperation issue
which can be fixed with thoroughly taught commands
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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coop
Wilmington, OH
Posts:17
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| 05/15/2012 10:05 AM |
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He is flipping the paw-what does that mean? If he doesn't comply, I'll ask again. This is where I need the help. What do I do to correct? I know I haven't thoroughly taught commands and this is where I need direction as what to do when he doesn't respond. |
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coop
Wilmington, OH
Posts:17
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| 05/15/2012 10:27 AM |
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So we tried the down for 15 min. 1st time was in front of patio door and lasted for 2 min.-saw robin outside and he was up looking out window. 2nd time, moved to living room and he was down for 1 min. until he heard the UPS truck go by and went to window to investigate. 3rd time, down until he heard another noise(for no longer than 1 min) and went to window again. This is where I don't know how to procede. Do I keep bringing him back to original"spot", give down command, and try try to extend time? |
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coop
Wilmington, OH
Posts:17
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| 05/15/2012 11:11 AM |
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I may have already asked this, but what do I do for non compliance? By the way, as I type this, he's laying down not far from me! |
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4448
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| 05/15/2012 11:36 AM |
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| Do some research on clicker training and marker training. |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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Texas Belle
Austin, TX
MH
Posts:7835
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| 05/15/2012 12:28 PM |
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First, a job for a shorthair can really be anything that makes them work and think, like obedience, hunting, tracking, or just being a well behaved dog. So when I say he needs a job, all that means is he needs something to work on and toward that engages his mind. Sounds like from your post and email, you want a well behaved dog. Do you have plans for anything else?
So assuming you want an obedient dog, then you need to start training the basics which it sounds like you are trying to do. Murphy is a year old so I am guessing you have a couple of things going on. First, he is a teenager and has reached the stage of what I call the puppy stupids, meaning he seems to have forgotten how to do stuff and is challenging you more regularly. And two, you are probably letting him get away with more than you realize. So, I would go back to basic obedience training with him and do it for short (5 minutes) sessions several time a day. Pick one of two things to work on. Then find a quiet non-distracting place like a quiet room or hallway in your house or maybe the garage. Something with as few distractions as possible. Remember you want Murphy focused on you as the best thing in the universe. If you first lesson is a sit tell him to sit and if he doesn’t, help him by either lure him with a treat of pulling straight up on his collar and gently pushing down on his rump. Do NOT issue the command a second time. He gets one shot and then you help him. I would not ask him to stay more than about 10 seconds at first, then release him and reward him with a game or a special treat. I he has done it right the first time you do not need to repeat the exercise. If he gets up during the time he is supposed to be sitting, taking him back to his original sit spot and tell him to sit once and if needed help him. It this happens I would only have him sit a few more seconds and release him with praise. End on a success and do not repeat if he is successful. Next time if he has done well and did not get up lengthen the time a little. If he did get up, then shorten the time a little. Gradually build your time up. You can do the same thing with the down.
For a recall find a place with some space (hallways work well) and keeping him on leash, have him sit, stay and walk out in front of him the length of your leash and turn around. If he gets up, do not say anything, just take him back and put him in a sit. Once you turn around, call him to you and reel in your leash until he is right in front of you and then tell him to sit. If he does not come on the recall command, give him a gently pop with the leash to let him know you want him to come. Again, if he does it right have a party and stop. After he gets good on leash, then remove the leash and try it. If he is slow in coming to you then, take a ball and throw it between your legs or throw a treat and let him run by you some of the time for the ball or treat and other time have him come to you and sit. Mix it up and keep it interesting and fun.
For now, I would keep all exercises on leash so you are in control and can make him do what you are asking. Also remember only one command and then help him do what you are asking. Also make the training fun. Play with him some after he is successful. Training is hard work and especially with a GSP. Also, always stop on a success and if he is successful the first time all that means is you go to something else. Do several very short training sessions a day and before long you will have a dog that likes training.
One other recommendation, if you are having problems with healing remember the secret is to keep your leash loose. So if he is starts pulling stop, wait and when he comes back to you ask him to heel again and start off . Also when he is in heel position praise him. That is the only way he will know what you want him to do.
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
   
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4448
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| 05/15/2012 12:41 PM |
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Training is hard work and especially with a GSP
UH, my dogs read this and are not in agreement
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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Texas Belle
Austin, TX
MH
Posts:7835
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smatulewicz
Michigan
MH
Posts:1188
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| 05/15/2012 2:11 PM |
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We use "sit" so many times daily for things that it isn't drilled as apart of a training session, but reinforced consistently throughout a day. For example, we have Bella sit at doorways until humans have gone through first and she is given permission to go through. We have her sit and wait for breakfast/dinner. We have her sit and wait at the top/bottom of the stairs until given the OK to go up/down. She is expected to be on her bum in the car unless given the OK to hang her head out of the window which she likes to stand. So finding little ways to incorporate basic obedience as your daily routine is a great way to escape drilling.
One thing I read that I would suggest finding an alternative is that you mentioned if the dog does not comply you ask again. When you ask again, you are no longer running the show. Not to mention teaching your dog the command is "sit....sit...SIT" and not "sit". If Bella does not comply, I either gently put her in the command or I walk away and ignore her...which drives her crazy and she is then ready to focus.
Keep rewards plentiful when training...swapping up the reward can be just as fun and exciting and changing up the training game. Add distractions when you're at 100% in the home.
I judge from Bella when to end training sessions. I always make sure to end on a good note, and I don't let it be her idea to end...I just anticipate that it is about to be her idea and I beat her to it Reward your dog with something it loves to do after...if it loves to be outside, train inside and then go play outside as reward.
Bella LOVES hide and seek in the house. It's a favorite rainy day activity. It also reinforces her commands wait (or stay - she waits in one room while I hide either myself or a toy) and her "go find" and "hunt it up" commands.
Get recall 100% inside before attempting outside, and outside there is a world of new sights and smells so if you're going to attempt it while training it outside, make sure to use a check cord so you can say it and mean it. I see so many people at the dog park saying "___ come. COME. ___ come. HERE ___come now" before ultimately going and getting the dog. Their dog has learned those words mean nothing. It can keep smelling and enjoying what it is doing until the last moments when the owner comes. I almost always have some sort of treat in my pocket. Bella is 90% on her recall.. 100% when I add a simple "NOW" at the end. If she comes on her own, I still throw a party for her as she is still young and learning, and sometimes she gets a treat. I've heard, "well, yea...i'd come for a treat too" from the same people calling their dog over and over and over again. Well, my dog came to me... so... lol "
I'm a newbie to training a GSP, but she is a phenomenal girl so I'm only speaking about things that have worked for me and Bella |
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smatulewicz
Michigan
MH
Posts:1188
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| 05/15/2012 2:19 PM |
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I also meant to add not to use commands if you can't reinforce them or they lose their meaning. When doing the down exercise Pixie suggested, if your dog breaks it...don't ask it again. Gently and without words take your dog back to the exact spot it moved from and put it back in the command it broke. You may have to a couple of times, but this absurdly smart dogs...they'll get the point.
We have added hand signals and snaps to certain commands that allow us to not have to actually say the command again. Bella tends to respond to the signals almost better than the verbal commands...especially out in the natural world when GSP ADD takes over and she isn't necessarily listening or fully focused.
For "Here" I added a double pat at my side. i bring my arm up fairly high so she can not only hear it but see it.
"Sit" - we fist our hands
"Stay or Wait" - hand in a stop motion
"Down" - point down to the ground
"Back up" palm toward the dog and push our hand forward as if pushing the air backward.
We have several others too if you want more ideas. |
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Texas Belle
Austin, TX
MH
Posts:7835
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| 05/15/2012 3:07 PM |
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| Dogs are visual, so hand signals often are better than verbals. The challenge is when they are young they have to be watching you or they miss the signal. In competition obedience you cannot pat your side or make any sounds, you only can use a single hand motion for each command. I use the palm pushing out for stop, the palm flipping up for sit, the palm facing out and moving up for down, the palm moving toward me for come. The finish is palm facing me and moved around to my back. I do the sit, come, down and finish with my right hand and the halt or stay with my left. These are pretty standard signals for folks that compete in obedience. I always signal out and away from me and not close into the chest so the dog can see the signal easily. This is where the focus really comes into play because in competition the judge signals you what to do and you only have a few seconds to respond. If the dog has looked away you fail. Also, a single signal is all you use just like with a single verbal command. |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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coop
Wilmington, OH
Posts:17
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| 05/16/2012 11:00 AM |
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Thank you very much for all the info. I have already started with just the sit command ,saying only once, and so far so good. I will keep you informed and will not hesitate to ask for more help!! |
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coop
Wilmington, OH
Posts:17
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| 05/16/2012 11:12 AM |
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These are great ideas, too. Thanks so much and I'll take all the ideas I can get. My husband will be hunting quail & pheasant with Murphy, so we know how important it is that he responds to commands before we begin e-collar training.
When you have time, I'd love to get more suggestions from you. Thanks again. |
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4448
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| 05/16/2012 11:24 AM |
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AAAHHH
you didn't mention upland hunting!
Things will be a bit different b/c of this.
flipping you the paw means well, oh, how to put this?- you know -
the middle finger? oh man, my daughter reads this forum.
anyway,
how has his cooperation been in the field?
will he turn when you do, does he check in - how often, if he looses sight of you - does he care? does he bolt?
If you have not started yet -
begin training whoa and some method of hold training so the retrieves will be reliable and "toothless".
If you plan on using him this upcoming season - get him on BIRDS ASAP!!,
if you haven't already
you want him searching not out to enjoy the wind in his ears.
Check into your local NAVHDA chapter - they can be a great resource
in regards to ecollar training - what is your plan?
b/c he could be collar conditioned by now and you would see a different dog
colar conditioning (to me)is when a dog know a command and is taught to turn off the pressure (stim from the collar) by performing correctly. Usually accomplished with the HERE command.
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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coop
Wilmington, OH
Posts:17
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| 05/16/2012 11:27 AM |
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Thanks, I will. |
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tgatto
Lake in the Hills, IL
MH
Posts:411
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| 05/17/2012 3:16 PM |
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Trying to follow this post. Getting a headache (may, or may not be related). I don't understand the "getting bored". May be dominance, or just plain regression - depending on if the dog is complying. Don't let compliance be an option would be my suggestion. You may want to try mixing-in field-work and obedience (Obedience IS work). Especially if you plan on hunting the dog.
Sadie and I battle over dominance occasionally, but because compliance is not an option, well, let's just say we WORK through it , sticking to a regular schedule. |
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It is watching the dogs work that I thoroughly enjoy, and love. I could get by with just watching them work - if it weren't for all the training, and the joy they exhibit when they pick-up, and deilver to hand a bird that they pointed, and you shot. - Todd |
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DuckFever
Central Oregon
MH
Posts:321
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| 06/09/2012 9:30 PM |
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| Just be consistent. What I have noticed with my family's dogs over the years and now with my own, if you let them get away with stuff, they will know that is a weak spot of yours that they can always get aways with. I like to be firm but gentle. |
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The worst day of hunting is better than the best day at work. |
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