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Subject: Explosive Detection Help
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Bomb DogUser is Offline


Posts:3


03/29/2012 5:40 PM  

 I am a Deputy Sheriff assigned to my departments Bomb Squad and in was recently assigned a Explosive Detection Dog. 5 Weeks ago I recieved a 11 month old GSP named "Nitro". He came from Croatia and had no training (blank slate). This is my departments first GSP. We normally use Labs. So needless to say he is a trial dog.  We started Explosive detection Training 4 weeks ago. 

It was a rocky start at first due to the fact he had no formal trainng in obediance. Because of this I was allready behind. Not only did I have to teach him basic obedience, I have to teach him detection.

His obedience is getting better. He will do the basics (Sit, Stay and Heel). The first week his detection skills were horrible. I couldnt get him to search for the life of me. The second week was like a switch got flipped and he became a searching machine. He would locate the explosive and sit immediately. The third week was even better. I would give him his search command and he would locate the explosive without any help from me. However, this week he did a complete 180. He will hardly search he mainly barks and searches occasionally. He wont alert unless his nose is directly on the explosive. He also gets side tracked very easily.  

Here is where I need your help. Since the Instructors in the class mainly deal with Labs they have no advice for GSP's. There is only 3 weeks left of class and I dont want him to fail.

Nothing has changed in his daily routine outside of traning. What could be wrong?

Texas BelleUser is Offline
Austin, TX
MH
MH
Posts:7854


03/29/2012 6:40 PM  
My guess is the game has gotten boring for him and he is also a baby still. You don't say what the training routine is, but if you are drilling him that may also be the problem. How do you reward success? What turns him on and motivates him? More detail on your routine would help too.

Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)

Yellow Rose GSPs

 photo FaunaBISJan20110001cropped_resized_zps96af44b6.jpg  photo DSC_0044_cropped_zps0a25f9ff.jpg  photo DSC_0030a_zps3c822a4a.jpg  photo DSC_0016cropped_zpsab533745.jpg

"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato
kpwleeUser is Offline
Raleigh, NC
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Posts:998


03/29/2012 6:56 PM  
In my opinion training a GSP is very different than a lab. Labs to me are much more tolerant of repetition, GSP's ( I am not nearly as experienced as many on here) need you to keep it interesting, slight changes in the challenges are good. Get him 'working' and onece he knows that he is at work he'll be a star. It can be hard to get my boy into work mode but once I do he's incredibly intense. Figure out what flips that switch, that will be your key

It's Bugsy's world...
http://dailyzoomie.blogspot.com/
Bomb DogUser is Offline


Posts:3


03/29/2012 7:18 PM  

 Thanks for the replys. The routine is repeated each day. However, each day is in a new location. One day might be vehicle searches and the next day will be building searches. Last week I took him to NASCAR and we trained in the pits while mechanics were working to help with working with destraction.

The base of the search is the same each time meaning, I have him sit then i give him the command to "Find It".  When he locates the explosive he immediately sits and looks at me. He is then rewarded with a toy. I have tried treats but he wont take them. The toy works best. we play for a few seconds then I tell him to "Out", meaning drop the toy. This is repeated 2-6x depending how may finds are hidden. 

Over the last two days he has been easily destracted and he wont search for long on his own. I have to "detail" the search meaning i have to hold him on a short leash and continue to point to areas to search. 

Before he woud locate odor and follow it to the source and pin point it.  I would call it the "rattlesnake",  because i could tell he was on odor because of his tail. Now he has no motivation and I cant tell if he is on odor or not. 

His endurance is also very poor. After two finds he is allready panting and acting tired. He use to be a machine and go for 6 finds easily.

pixie beeUser is Offline

MH
MH
Posts:4452


03/30/2012 4:00 AM  

There can be several things going on -
(no particular order)
1) what's in it for him? Is the bond betwen you strong enough and the love for that toy strong enough? It can be difficult to find a strong motivator for a GSP-
they live for game(feather fur)
you may want to use a swatch from a rabbit pelt as a motivator
2) is obedience training overwhelming and no longer fun?
3) is the pressure of training for this overwhelming - GSPs are kinda known for shutting down/avoidance under unbalanced pressure - panting,acting tired and that's my take on it - acting - he's showing avoidance
Does he recieve corrections,are they too harsh for this particular dog?
4) essentialy, he has lost drive
5) a GSP should not get bored in the search/drive area - maybe he doesn't have what it takes mentally?
5) is he being stimulated in other areas?

so, my take on it is the dog wants to do this but something in the training is causing avoidance issues - again, could be he mentally can not deal with the pressure - GSPs can take a while to mature

May I ask how you came about a GSP from Croatia?
There are many fine dogs here in the states.

The reason I ask is b/c Croatia is an FCI member.

Does the pedigree show testing in the German system -DKV or other system that shows the lineage has been tested in hunting and possibly blood tracking?

The reason I ask b/c we can learn a lot about a dog thru knowing if the parents and grandparents have matured  early,

passing tests would be one such indicator.

Good luck to you and Nitro and your exam


 



"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
weerubbertummyUser is Offline
Ayrshire, Scotland
MH
MH
Posts:726


03/30/2012 11:19 AM  
Sorry, just sticking my tuppence-worth in here because my dad did explosive detection with his gwp and was pretty high up in the police training relating to that. I'm boasting now but he helped pioneer a few new techniques over here.

Do you actually give him the toy when he indicates? The reason i ask is that it seems to be commonplace to actually "throw" the preferred toy in such a way that he actually associates the toy with whatever he his indicating, as opposed to looking to you to receive the toy. In other words he should almost the under the impression that the explosive is actually the entity giving him the toy, so it should be thrown to bounce as if out of nowhere and not from you. He may just be wanting to skip the search and have the toy because he knows it comes from you.

The other aspect is that once shown where to search by the handler on one occasion, he may expect you to show him where to look in the future, and ultimately become frustrated then bored if this doesnt happen.

Please know that this isnt from my own personal experience and that i dont mean it to sound like a lecture or anything, but i listened A LOT for the 25 years that my dad did general purpose, and drug and explosive detection work and training with a variety of breeds. Hope it helps and good luck!

Miss you forever Kintra baby xxx
Bomb DogUser is Offline


Posts:3


03/30/2012 4:15 PM  
Thanks again for your help everyone.
Pixie Bee:
I think your right and the training was overwhelming him. He has had a lot of training thrown at him in a short time and i believe it was starting to frusterate him. I told the Instructors today that we need to slow it down. We put out half of the normal finds today and he did better. He didn't appear to shut down during a search but he would get frustrated because he couldn't pinpoint the source and stop. After i redirected him, he continued to search.

As far as being from Croatia well, thats not my call. That just happens to be where our Departments vendor gets them. Im not sure of the reasoning behind it.

weerubbertummy:
No worries here. I need all the help i can get. In regards to his toy sometimes i throw it and sometimes the instructor throws it. It just mixes it up and gives the dog something different. However, once out of training i will be by my self with no one to throw for me.

In regards to the search. I can see your point. I try and redirect him when he gets sidetracked or gets frustrated and stops searching but, when we are doing a detailed search i need to direct him to door jams and other places he sometimes misses.

Please keep up the advice. I really appreciate it. I have thick skin so fire away...Rob
BHCUser is Offline


Posts:4


04/17/2012 10:23 PM  

 I am getting a GSP in a few weeks and am interested in this thread simply because aside from hunting I am hopin to train my dog to hunt antler sheds, it seems like the explosive training and shed antler training would be very similar.. I'm a first timer so I was curious how to train a dog for something like this... Please be as detailed as text will allow...😊

pixie beeUser is Offline

MH
MH
Posts:4452


04/18/2012 4:23 AM  
Shed hunting is actually very easy.
All you need are sheds to train with.
Let the dog know the scent,then hide them - easy at first,like a yard and graduate to where you will eventually be finding the sheds.
Reward with treats and praise.



"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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Forums > General > Training > Explosive Detection Help



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