weerubbertummy Ayrshire, Scotland
 MH Posts:726


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| 01/08/2012 8:30 AM |
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Keely's due to go out for her first walk on Tuesday and we're really looking forward to is cos she's got so much curiosity that the garden is no longer enough for her.
I'm looking for ideas on how to get her to stop grabbing at the lead. I've been walking her around the garden and house, and i'm well aware that pups do grab at the lead initially but she's really got a thing for it. So far i've: distracted her with toys, distracted her with treats/food, followed her not allowing the lead to go taught and so tried to make the lead feel light, stood still and turned/looked away so that the grabbing doesnt get her any attention or reaction.
I was going to try leaving the lead on her just trailing behind her so she becomes accustomed to it, but i've been told that might encourage her to chew it. I cant really think of anything else to do. I know that eventually the novelty will wear off once she realises that i'm not reacting to it, and also that once outside everything else will be far more interesting, but i just dont want it to be an issue before we set foot outside the garden.
Any ideas?
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Miss you forever Kintra baby xxx |
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Texas Belle Austin, TX
 MH Posts:7856


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| 01/08/2012 9:14 AM |
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Let her drag the leash, but don't let her chew on it. You might try a short tab that she can't get at to chew. The tabs give the pups a sensation of wearing a leash, but they are not long.
In case you don't know what I mean by a tab: www.jjdog.com/mm5/merchant.mvc
You can also make one with an old leash. Just cut it off at the length you want. If it is a nylon leash, heat the end of it with a match to melt the threads so it doesn't unravel.
Then once she gets used to the shorter tab, increase the length. She just needs to get used to the leash. My guess is she doesn't like the restraint. Also, when I have a puppy that likes to chew on the leash, I gently remove the leash from her mouth and praise her when she is not chewing it. Giving her a toy might be perceived as a reward. Same thing with treating. Be sure and praise her allot when she is walking on the leash the way you want her to as that is the only way she knows what you want. You can also lure her with food to walk on a loose leash since, if I remember right, she is very food motivated. Use that food motivation to your advantage. You can fade the food later. |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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Texas Belle Austin, TX
 MH Posts:7856


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| 01/08/2012 9:21 AM |
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BTW I never entirely do away with the food motivator even in training for competition obedience. I start with food in my pocket or hand where it is easy to get to, and reward frequently and often. Later when the dog has learned what I want I leave the treats in a bowl off to the side of the area where I train and only reward after an exercise is completed. I use a gradual process to get to this and it varies from dog to dog on how long it takes. Ringo has just made it to food on the sidelines and he is 3 years old, but he has an attention issue and we have been working on focus for a long long time. It also took him a long time to mature. The idea is they can see the food bowl and know the reward is coming and they do work harder knowing that if they are food motivated. Halo was not food motivated until she was older, and in that case you have to find a motivator. With Halo it was a laser pointer. She loved to chase the red dot. However you have to be careful with laser pointers as some dogs get obsessive with them. This is probably more info that you wanted, but seemed like a good place to talk about food motivators. Good luck with Keely! She sure is a cutie. |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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weerubbertummy Ayrshire, Scotland
 MH Posts:726


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| 01/08/2012 9:31 AM |
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| Thanks, and there's no such thing as too much info when it comes to training i think. Any help is welcome. She's very food driven but she's also completely crazy about tennis balls, so i think that will allow for a little flexibility and variation, particularly when out and about, and esp when working on her recall. |
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Miss you forever Kintra baby xxx |
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weerubbertummy Ayrshire, Scotland
 MH Posts:726


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| 01/12/2012 6:00 AM |
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What are everyone's opinions on incorporating clicker training when training a gsp pup? I introduced the clicker to Kintra when she was starting agility and she seemed to pick it up quickly.
I'm in the process of leash training Keely and training her to heel off lead and walk with a loose lead. I know obviously that verbal praise can be immediate but i just wonder if the clicker may be more succinct and directly associated with food and treating.
I watched a Willow Creek kennels vid on youtube a while ago and the use of the clicker with leash training seemed to make sense, although it appeared to be a trained dog that was used in the video.
I have been working on getting and keeping her attention and tried to build it up so that she wouldnt be completely ignoring me when outside the garden, but she is actually now quite distracted by vehicles passing and i wonder whether my verbal praise is just too "blah, blah" when she's anxious about cars. |
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Miss you forever Kintra baby xxx |
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Texas Belle Austin, TX
 MH Posts:7856


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| 01/12/2012 7:25 AM |
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| Clicker training is great and would be worth trying. I am not sure she will hear the clicker any better than your voice until she gets her confidence back around cars. I wouldn't even really try heel work. I would instead work on the car issue with her. The help her there use everything and anything you can think of from food, clickers, toys, etc. Separately work on her heeling/leash work preferably where there are no cars. Later you can put them back together. |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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juliej Kentucky
 MH Posts:113


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| 01/13/2012 10:08 AM |
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| I have not personally used a clicker, but I do use a verbal marker. A LOT of my dog world friends in obedience and agility use and swear by cllicker training. One even trains her mini donkeys using clicker training. It seems to be a wonderful way to get quick and happy responses. |
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Julie Aldo von der Raucherei |
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weerubbertummy Ayrshire, Scotland
 MH Posts:726


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| 01/13/2012 10:21 AM |
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It really does seem to be popular with trainers here too. I think it's like giving an instant treat where maybe verbal praise isnt enough. Probably depends on the dog and the handler. To be honest i think because she spends all day with me and i do talk to myself and her sometimes, maybe my voice is like white noise to her ;0) - i'm sure my other half can sympathise with her if that is the case. I have to ask - mini donkeys? |
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Miss you forever Kintra baby xxx |
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pixie bee
 MH Posts:4452


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| 01/13/2012 10:30 AM |
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I like Michael Ellis's training methods.
Great for puppies.
http://michaelellisschool.com/vid_engagement.htm |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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weerubbertummy Ayrshire, Scotland
 MH Posts:726


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| 01/18/2012 5:07 AM |
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Thanks Pixie, i've got to say i really like his approach and i know i definately forget to put specific time into just playing and engaging Keely. Another question i have for everyone: is it better to play in this way before doing any sort of training, for instance loose lead training? I keep trying to find the best level of energy for keeping her concentration but she's either too wild and daft, or she's asleep. There doesnt seem to be a happy medium with her just now - i think it's a phase as she was more attentive before and i know as she's getting more confident she's more easily distracted. Obviously at nearly 13 weeks it's an age thing too, but i know it's still an important period of her puppyhood for absorbing as much as possible. |
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Miss you forever Kintra baby xxx |
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weerubbertummy Ayrshire, Scotland
 MH Posts:726


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| 01/18/2012 5:10 AM |
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| Just realised that wasnt very clear. What i meant was is it worth tiring her out just a little to get rid of excess energy before training her? I do try to do regular training maybe a few hours after her last feed so that she's always hungry for her food rewards. |
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Miss you forever Kintra baby xxx |
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pixie bee
 MH Posts:4452


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| 01/18/2012 5:30 AM |
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I don't know about tiring out - I don't normally do this b/c it only promotes more excited behavior and I find myself working on calming them from the "run/fun/tiring out" mode. I do allow them to do their business - on lead before we train. I like to set the rules from the begining - so we understand each other better - no confusion. |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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kpwlee Raleigh, NC
 MH Posts:998


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| 01/20/2012 7:51 AM |
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This is a great resource for clicker training http://www.clickertraining.com/library you may need to register but it is free This is specific to loose leash walking http://www.clickertraining.com/node/541 Bugsy LOVES the clicker, it is my best resource for calming him on days we can't be outside too much |
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It's Bugsy's world... http://dailyzoomie.blogspot.com/ |
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weerubbertummy Ayrshire, Scotland
 MH Posts:726


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| 01/23/2012 7:08 AM |
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Jeez, she's so headstrong and independent! She's finally got her toilet training back on track after the UTI, and we're really getting somewhere with her basic obedience, but the loose leash training is a nightmare I've been clicking/treating when she's where i want her to be on the lead ie by my left side, and i give her crazy praise when she's paying a lot of attention to me when walking. I've taken her ball and bounced it, given her cheese, played with duckie etc all when she's doing the right thing and it really reinforces it well i think. But its the times when you just CANT get her attention (usually when her nose is down). I've had the leash high up on her neck, tried giving it a wee tug, i've tried the kissy noises (that usually gets her attention everywhere except when she's on the lead), i've tried threatening to run, changing direction etc the additional problem is that obviously when she starts pulling with her nose down i CANT just let her do it seeing as she is actually starting to understand what she is meant to do so i dont want to let her away with pulling at all.
This one's really hard work!
The leash walking is the only thing i can foresee being a problem, and i'm trying really hard not to think negatively when we head out to walk but my mind's really filled with a million different methods to try and i dont think that's helping. One major problem is that i've always been taught to keep her on my left side, holding the leash in my right hand, and using my left hand for extra control if required - but i find (also with Kintra) that she is inclined to follow where the lead is coming from and try to cross over in front of me. I would be happy just to have a loose leash eventually, but felt it would be easier to keep her to one side in the meantime.
Somebody, please help! I'm even reading cesar milan to try to become the "calm assertive" being that supposedly has better luck with leash training lol. Besides the walky problem, she's doing really well, and dont worry, i'm still allowing her to be a puppy, i'm just really aware that this would benefit from being sorted out early on. |
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Miss you forever Kintra baby xxx |
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weerubbertummy Ayrshire, Scotland
 MH Posts:726


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| 01/23/2012 7:15 AM |
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Meant to ask also, I've been checking out a lot of the Michael Ellis vids since Pixie Bee recommended them. Has anyone bought the Focussed Heeling video? I know it's mainly aimed at those doing heelwork for obedience, but he also says it can help your average owner (me) with loose leash walking. |
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Miss you forever Kintra baby xxx |
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pixie bee
 MH Posts:4452


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| 01/23/2012 7:26 AM |
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Here's my take: What is the routine? When you exit the door does she have an airing time - potty time? How long are you "making" her pay attention to you? The dog needs "off" time" during the walks. Say - exit door ,2 minute airing time,then 2-4 minute pay attention/loose leash time, then 4-6 minute free time - we need to leave something in it for the dog - sorry - but what you have to offer is not as interesting as dirt - it is for a short period of time - so read her better and give the off time on your terms,not hers. |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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pixie bee
 MH Posts:4452


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| 01/23/2012 7:27 AM |
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another thought - have faith in latent learning |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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weerubbertummy Ayrshire, Scotland
 MH Posts:726


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| 01/23/2012 8:27 AM |
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I'll give a brief rundown of what i do. I pick up the leash and she knows it's walk time. I let her wander the garden for a minute approx (until she pees), then i put her lead on at the gate, make her wait til i go out first, then we're on our lane (not the road). I walk her back and forth on the tarmac lane (at the rear of ours and the neighbours houses) for a minute practising (and wishing) for a loose leash utilising cheese, praise and attention. Then we move up a dirt track between 2 fields (horsey fields but empty just now - the neighbours dogs also visit these fields so loads of smells) and this is when i'm trying to keep her attention and she understandably puts her nose to the ground (prob because of the dogs and horses). I do release her with "okay" to wander but on-leash (i use "okay" to release her from other commands), then after approx a minute i try to get her attention again. I thought that maybe alternating between each for a minute approx would be best but maybe i should go back to basics and start again the garden. I'm using the lane area because she can see/smell/hear everything that happens in it from my garden, plus i've taken Texas Belle's advice about trying to concentrate on loose leash away from the road with vehicles at the moment. I totally appreciate what you're saying about latent learning - it's probably fair to say that subconsciously i've been looking for an instant result every time and she's maybe realised each time that i've given up pretty quickly - i'll def need to work on that. |
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Miss you forever Kintra baby xxx |
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Texas Belle Austin, TX
 MH Posts:7856


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| 01/23/2012 8:37 AM |
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I agree with pixie. When I start the loose leash training with my puppies, I do it in a quiet and boring environment inside. I usually also start without the leash teaching them where I want them to be. I don't use a clicker, but I do use a verbal marker in much the same way. I then start adding in the leash. Also there is a difference between loose leash training and heeling. Loose leash training just means they are not pulling, and heeling is walking in heel position with their head to the side of my left leg by a few inches. I teach both and mainly focus on the loose leash at first. I also never try training outside when they are puppies as it is just too hard to compete with the good smells and interesting stuff, especially while they are so young. So my recommendation would be to save the training for a quiet and boring place and let her enjoy her walk outside. If you do anything, just work on the loose leash and don't try the more formal heeling. Also, I never work heeling more than a couple of minutes or so even with my older dogs. Also break your heeling work down into small segments. Work on starting off crisply where you start from a stand and after only a few steps if she had a nice attentive start reward. Then you can work on the position by your left side in a straight line, then add in turns and about turns. I use a food lure allot for the turning stuff. Hold the food right in front of her nose. Also you can teach the left and right circle to help the dog learn body awareness. This helps them later get a nice close turn around you. So I do two kinds of left and right circles. The first is where I spin them out in front of me. The second is a circle to the right or left where I am part of the turning. Those are some ideas that should help, but if you have specific questions ask away. Have fun!! |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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pixie bee
 MH Posts:4452


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| 01/23/2012 8:56 AM |
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When I start the loose leash training with my puppies, I do it in a quiet and boring environment inside. I think this is key. She's way to young to expect any real focus. Which is where latent learning comes in. Horses and other dog? - no way - only a formally trained obedience dog can walk on thru w/o giving in to dropping their nose. When things are not going as planned - simplify. She's a cutie pie - cut her (and youself) some slack. things will fall into place - don't fuss so much about it. |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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