Still newer to the forum have really only read alot, not many post. I have my dog trained to come, heel, kennel, and sit  He has not been around birds at all. I know he is not gun shy as i shoot around him frequently. I have never taken him out to hunt as im worried if it is (skipping steps). I can get him to retrieve anything other than a bumper or a fake rubber pheasant as long as it squeaks, is a stick, or a ball he will go get it and bring it back. I have a friend who has a young dog as well same age gsp. I run into alot of people telling me just get him on birds thats the best thing for him and the best training there is.....I dont agree with this completely. Like i said he knows come sit heel. I just wanna ensure I am using the correct steps in training. He does not know whooa, and he isnt retreving so what would your next suggested step be Forced fetch or teaching him whooa? Also is there anyone around the Omaha, Ne area you all would recommend for training? Also would it be a bad idea to just take him out and see what happens? Thanks in advance

Hey Zach5187.  Your situation sounds similar to my situation earlier this month (see training, Subject:  Force Fetch Question).  It does depend on your goals for the dog - what you hunt, what your expectations are in the field.  I personally like my dog to point and stand-off prey until I can flush the bird, and have a clear shot with minimal risk to the dog (an ideal for me), so I focus pretty hard on Whoa so the dog will stay put until I send her after the shot bird, or return her to hunting (in the "rare" case I miss...).  I have seen dogs jump into the line of fire after a bird flushes (although rare it does happen - I have been lucky enough to not see a dog hit when this happens), so I teach Whoa, and also put an orange vest on my dog (see pictures...) to increase visibility.  But I digress...

As to Force-Fetch (also Trained-retrieve, Smart Fetch...):  I personally see value in it.  I hunt in pretty rough cover, so getting the dog onto the bird is nice, but a dog that would pick it up and bring it back to me and hold it until I take it is the ultimate in ensuring conservation, in my mind.  I have had Sadie out twice this year, and although (right now) she is chasing the shot bird, and pinning it so I can get it, I routinely run (like an idiot, by the way - I am not that agile... )past where the bird went down, and have to come back to her to find out that she is on it.  Further, I realize that if she left the bird, it would remain in the field (I would never find it).

You will read a TON of information on Force Fetch (not to mention e-collars, negative reinforcement, punishment...).  I will tell you the people who FF their dogs properly swear by it.  Personally going through the process, I see no difference between training the dog to retrieve, and training the dog to sit, or heel, or come (or whoa).

As to birds or not, I would get the dog on birds (personally).  I value every opportunity I have to get my dog on birds - they learn so fast from the experiences.  I might train Whoa first (again, because I want my dog to stand-off the birds, have solid points, and stay out of the line of fire) if I were you.  I would not expect (or force) the dog to retrieve at this point (if they haven't demonstrated it so far).  If the dog decides to - BONUS! Just don't expect it .

Definately get a good book, or DVD on FF if you decide to pursue that path.  I use Dobbs (TriTronics Retreiver Training), which is a good overall reference.  Evan Graham SmartFetch is one that is more focused on the topic (and will be recommended...).  SmartFetch is also available in DVD which is a more rich training reference - from what I hear.

Hope that helps (I rambled alot...).  Good luck!!

My dog is going to be primarly ran on pheasant, and quail. Aquired a free dog from a craigslist ad today actually. She is a 6 yr old gsp and guy claims she is a great bird dog. Have not had a chance to put her on birds seems how i did just get her today. She does not seem to know heel but know come and sit. She does constantly have her nose buried to the ground i have noticed so i guess based of your reply i plan on taking the two of them out sun am to a pheasant farm about 70 miles from my house and see what happens.

I would be cautious with the recently acquired 6-year old. It can take some time to develop the trust between dog and handler (especially "Come" with a birdy-field!), as you may be aware. Maybe use a check-cord until you are confident (can you tell I am sensitive to dogs running-off?). I agree with Pixie Bee - run them one at a time for now, but get them on birds as soon as possible. I don't know how often you train, or work with them. It can be useful to see how they work together in a more controlled environment, and expand to the pheasant farm (if at all possible - not always is).

In the interest of describing where I am coming from with my comments, I hunt clubs in Illinois, and I know nothing is more frustrating than being "visited" by another hunter's dog (especially if my dog is doing the "visiting"!). I like to have good control over my dog(s) before I get out to the club/farm.