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Subject: Introduction to Hunting Competitions/Testing
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krtennysonUser is Offline
Northern Virginia
MH
MH
Posts:69


02/11/2008 12:33 PM  

I am trying to wrap my brain around the various hunt tests and competitions for versatile dogs.  Up until this point I have only hunted over my dogs, never competed.  I would like to change that in the coming year.

Here are my questions:

  • Which of the hunt tests are recognized by AKC (Field Trials, Hunt Tests (JH, etc), NSTRA, NAVHDA)?
  • Is the only difference between field trials and hunt tests the fact that field trials are competitive between dogs, while hunt tests are judged against a standard?  Or are there more differences than that?
  • What tests do you compete in with your shorthairs?
  • Which tests best mimic normal hunting conditions and are best for evaluating a versatile dog's natural abilities?
  • Which test is most conducive to "owner handled" competition without an enormous commitment of time and money (say 6 weekends/year size of commitment).

I appreciate your help and perspective.


Opinions are like @ssholes, everyone has one.

Genuine dialogue benefits everyone, getting on your soapbox is a waste of everyone's time.
TreyUser is Offline
SW Iowa
MH
MH
Posts:516


02/11/2008 1:05 PM  

Well, the first part of your question :"hunt tests and competitions for versatile dogs. " NAVHDA test for the versatility (well so do the german clubs, but unless you have an fci pedigree you can't go there). By versatility I mean field, water and tracking, what the dog was bred for instead of the akc options that just lump them in with the pointers and setters with no water work , or tracking.

To the other questions:

 

1: AKC sponsors hunt tests   field trials. NSTRA and NAVHDA are separate organizations with their own test/trials.
2: Basically yes (competition/standard) levels of finish are different.
3: I do AKC HT and FT, NAVHDA, and have also done some NAHRA, Also akc agility and obedience
4: NAVHDA
5: NAVHDA (large base of people at local chapter level to help you) AKC hunt tests, AKC walking trials (can be hard to find). Any test or trial wich requires a 'finished' (steady to fall, retrieve to hand) are going to require a large amount of time. NSTRA trials the dogs don't have to be steady to fall, so may be an option.There are also many 'run and gun' organizations out there, timed events, that the dog work doesn't have to be perfect in.

Any of these is going to get you out there spending time with your dog in the off season, which, will give you a better partner in the field while hunting.

krtennysonUser is Offline
Northern Virginia
MH
MH
Posts:69


02/11/2008 1:15 PM  

Do AKC pedigrees show champions in NAVHDA, NSTRA, etc?  I assume the answer is no, but want to be clear.


Opinions are like @ssholes, everyone has one.

Genuine dialogue benefits everyone, getting on your soapbox is a waste of everyone's time.
WagonmasterUser is Offline

SH
SH
Posts:43


02/11/2008 2:13 PM  

No.  None of the organizations show titles of any other organization on the dog's pedigree.  Breeders need to make up their own pedigrees in order to do that, and because some breeders either don't understand standard terminology, or want to play with it a little, you need to know what abbreviations mean and maybe ask to see the back up for such made up pedigrees.  I am not saying people make the peds up to cheat, most make them up because it is the only way to get title from multiple organizations on one piece of paper, just be aware that sometimes there is fudging. 

In fact, even AKC pedigrees do not show all AKC titles necessarily.  For whatever reason, parent breed club titles are sometimes omitted from AKC pedigrees.  The German Shorthaired Pointer Club of America   ("GSPCA";)   is the parent breed club for GSP's under the sanction of the AKC.  The GSPCA sponsors the National Field Trial and wins entitle dogs to a number of titles, such as "NFC" for National Field Champion.  These titles are in the AKC rules.  But for whatever reason, the titles awarded at the GSPCA Nationals sometimes do not show up.  One sometimes has to contact the AKC and request that they be added.

As for your question about what event is most representative of hunting, I can give you my opinion.  That event would be any of the wild bird field trials that happen under the American Field umbrella, and the most representative of all would be what are called Cover Dog or Grouse Dog trials, because those are not only run entirely on wild birds, but are also entirely foot handled, which is how the vast majority of hunters work their dogs.  The other AF wild bird trials are horseback handled.  I have horses, and have ridden and participated in many horseback trials.  I love the prairie grouse (sharptail) trials to death, but I think the ruffed grouse trials are a more realistic representation of hunting.

All hunt tests, all AKC sanctioned field trials, all NAVHDA tests, and most field trials outsides of the AKC umbrella are run on planted birds these days, and you can argue that they are representative, but no wild bird smells of bird crate, human hands and bird poop.  And no wild bird will sit there while you pick it up and throw it.  Well, I saw one wild rooster in the snow that did that once, but for all intents and purposes, it never happens.

In GSP circles, we have only a handful of wild bird trials, all horseback and all under the NGSPA, they are the Sharptail Championships, the Greater Prairie Chicken Championships, and the Region 17 Championships, which are run on wild birds.  On occasion, wild birds are encountered in the hour Championships.  Very rarely in the AKC half hour stakes. 

All the other trials and hunt tests are actually more representative of the training dogs undergo, they are tests of the dog's ability to perform as trained.

pixie beeUser is Offline

MH
MH
Posts:4448


02/11/2008 5:53 PM  
NAVHDA is now recognized by AKC.
For GSPs the only true versatile venue is NAVHDA.For the reasons Trey mentioned.
I test in versatile venues b/c I want to see more tracktability and cooperation in my dogs.These systems,for me, show this the most.
There are other reasons I like versatile venues but these are 2 important reasons.


"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
TreyUser is Offline
SW Iowa
MH
MH
Posts:516


02/11/2008 8:00 PM  
NAVHDA is now recognized by AKC
They recognise our registry (IE, you can take your navhda pedigree and registration and register your dog with akc) but they won't have the navhda test scores or titles on the akc pedigree.
pixie beeUser is Offline

MH
MH
Posts:4448


02/12/2008 9:22 AM  
It is up to the breeder to accurately advertise the litter and a buyer to do their homework.
Decide which venues promote the type of dog you want.I do caution that titles can mean very little.
I am a firm believer that seeing is believing.


"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
smorleyUser is Offline
Utah
SH
SH
Posts:43


04/02/2008 12:12 AM  
ok i see a very poised pixie bee. I belive my dog has a better nose. how do I prove it.
pixie beeUser is Offline

MH
MH
Posts:4448


04/02/2008 5:58 AM  
Troll.

Francine


"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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