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Rose

MH
Posts:362

10/22/2011 10:28 PM
Questions... Does anyone here train for controlled eye contact? When should eye contact from the dog be expected? How much eye contact is too much? What are your thoughts on "staring down" your dog until the dog looks away? I'm just curious in what ways eye contact can be used as a tool from a handlers perspective. I've been reading Brenda Aloff's book on Aggression there is extensive info on training for eye contact and I would love to hear other's opinions on the topic. And a couple of recent pics. Nice to finally have the stitches out after the neutering!

Legallyblonde User is Offline

Otsego MI

MH
Posts:244

10/24/2011 6:47 AM
I'm not familiar with Brenda Aloff, but I absolutely train eye contact. I started with Ozzy at 9 weeks, and it helped create such a good foundation for training everything else. Strengthens the bond as well in my opinion. Oz has such a solid recall with no shock collar ever touching him and I attribute a lot of that to starting the eye contact early. With my dogs, I started the eye contact by shaping it. I hold a treat in one hand, closed so they can't get it. If they try to get it, I don't move my hand or pull away as that becomes the focus. The second they flick eyes at my, they get a yes and a treat. Keep repeating that and they get it pretty quick. Some people cue it with the dogs name. My whole pack is to the point if I get treats out to work they all come to attention and give very solid eye contact. My little cattle dog is so intense on it she won't even look at the treat LOL! I personally don't believe in the dominance theory with dogs, so much of that is being debunked, and I use eye contact so much with my dogs staring them down would do nothing LOL. There's a ton of information out there about the whole dominance controversy, but this site has some good info to start: http://drsophiayin.com/philosophy/dominance/

UWPCH CA GSJCH USUVCH Boogerman Loverboy Oskar TDI CGC SHR UWP CH Abbe Lane's Prince of Darkness TAN NA-I RBIMBS

Texas Belle User is Offline

Austin, TX

MH
Posts:7864

10/24/2011 8:57 AM
I teach the eye contact with my dogs, but I call it focus. Since I compete in obedience it is a important. Of course, then in the conformation ring you don't want them looking at you so I also teach the independence. My command for focus is watch. They know when I say that they are supposed to look at me and we make eye contact. The whole staring down thing is tricky and very different than what we are talking about. I also would not make eye contact with a strange dog in the way I make it with my pack. Staring is a form of aggression in dogs and generally if two dogs start the staring game look out. Also, you will notice when dogs great each other they always approach from the side. Head on is an aggressive posture in dogs. When I work with a new shy pup, I usually squat down and look away from the dog and hold a treat in my hand at my side. I let the dog approach me. Your boy looks great in the pictures. How is he doing now?

Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna) Yellow Rose GSPs "A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato

pixie bee

MH
Posts:4452

10/24/2011 12:17 PM
Search Michael Ellis and Leerburg Kennels Nice looking dog

"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle

Rose

MH
Posts:362

10/25/2011 11:40 AM
Wow - http://leerburg.com/flix/player.php?id=189. Thumbs up to Michael Ellis, thanks for the resource. Good, glad to hear that what I've been working on with the dog is relevant. Looks like there are several components to eye contact? Casey's been a bit better, the neutering seems to have mellowed him out some. I see less worry in his eyes these days. However, he is still reactive around dogs. Yes, he does do head on eye contact with stranger dogs. To deal with this I've been trying distraction into the play/prey mode by pointing to the ground saying "What's this" and getting him to sniff, which gets his attention away from the other dog if I catch it early enough. It's been a difficult few months, but I finally see light at the end. I think he has great potential (Ha, that's what everyone always said about me when I was a youngster), it's just a matter of us putting the work in, which looks like it will be lifelong. What surprised me going into the increased work on obedience is what a low threshold for frustration, or what little self control, he has/had. I guess that's what obedience is all about, increasing that threshold. The hard part for me now is getting all others on board. Sometimes teaching other people is harder than teaching the dog. Different from the focus training eye contact, I've been asking strangers to please do not stare into my dogs eyes, or to stare him down. I've been wondering if the staring is something he learned from us humans. Must be hard not to look at such a good looking dog.

pixie bee

MH
Posts:4452

10/25/2011 12:36 PM
Do you think he is aggressive? There is a good chance he is not - I truely doubt he is. Consider this - Can he be under socialized - have poor social skills? Can it be that he wants so desparatly to meet and greet and that being on the leash/restricted the anxiety of another dog,turns to frustration which turns to a show of aggression? This can sound terrible and a dog can look to be extrememly aggressive. When all the dog really wants to do is meet. Even when they get to meet, it turns pushy,growly etc. Maybe he needs to finesse the finer points of the meet and greet? Just some food for thought.

"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle

Rose

MH
Posts:362

10/27/2011 3:36 PM
Can he be under socialized - have poor social skills? Can it be that he wants so desparatly to meet and greet and that being on the leash/restricted the anxiety of another dog,turns to frustration which turns to a show of aggression? Maybe he needs to finesse the finer points of the meet and greet? Yes, yes and yes. Good food for thought.

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