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bkirsch
JH
Posts:36
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| 01/30/2011 6:17 PM |
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We have always received such excellent advice from the forum. What technique to you use to keep your GSP in range in the field? Josie is 1-1/2 years old and is gaining reliability on recall.....Actually she is pretty good. But sometimes she gets caught up in the moment and goes a little too far away. Many thanks |
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Bill
Elm Grove, WI |
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trueblushorthairs
MH
Posts:129
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| 02/02/2011 12:47 PM |
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| is the dog running off or just ranging a little too big? Most want their dogs to take them to birds and not stay so close they could find the birds themselves. If you are asking for the dog to range no more than in gun range you maybe have the wrong breed of dog. If you are wanting the dog to hunt 100 yards instead of 300, then you need to start planting birds closer to you so that the dog begins to relate you to birds. Hate to even say it, but you may need to work on obedience, hack the dog a little more, use a collar(if you are well versed in working a dog on an e-collar), and making sure the dog gets into birds quicker on training outings. |
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TessaGA
Georgia
MH
Posts:2387
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| 02/02/2011 2:38 PM |
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Does the dog turn on command? Tessa turns to the whistle. It's fairly easy to teach with a whistle and a check cord. Whenever she ranges too far, instead of calling her back, I turn her into the direction I want her to go. Works well for us - it puts a cap on the range without reeling her in and inadvertently causing her to hunt too close. |
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To live without dogs would mean accepting a form of blindness. [Thomas McGuane]
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dylandarling
craryville ny
MH
Posts:75
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| 02/06/2011 7:20 PM |
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| my trainer rolls birds in front of him, uses the whistle and a check cord to cast..now they stay real close |
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List_House
Midland, Pa (western, Pa)
MH
Posts:142
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| 02/19/2011 3:55 PM |
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I have a similar problem. I have let the dog gain confidence since he was a pup. He is now 2yo. So after this season, just recently on the last two times out for exercise I have been "hacking" him in. I get the plant the birds closer. But what about when your just taking them for a run? The hacking I was told would eventually he would learn the range. However I started using the command "close" to just get him to stop and look back. But he has started stopping and will basically go to heel. If I give him the release "OK" then he is back off and running. So I started just not saying anything but I don't want that to screw up my heel or whoa that requires a release?
As far as range I would be happy with 100yds but my dog will consistantly work out 300+ and is not a staunch pointer yet. I will try to work on that more this year. I am planning on buying some chukar to raise and use. |
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4448
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| 02/20/2011 9:28 AM |
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List_House,
was he lacking confidence?
Not sure what was allowed during hunts, but a dog not encouraged to pay attention to the hunter/handler will learn not to.
When out on walks there is usually no much to point and no solid scent to hold a dog. The dog will search and search and search. This can draw a dog out very far.
My guess is that he is coming to heel b/c he doesn't know what you want, your hacking is too harsh or what words are you using when hacking?
Have you taught 'come round", do you wave your arm when he is checking in to turn him,do you turn and he follows?
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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TessaGA
Georgia
MH
Posts:2387
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| 02/20/2011 7:50 PM |
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I am a newbie so don't take this as advice, but I never liked hacking and was unaware of it being a way to teach a dog range.
I use two sharp blows with the whistle to turn her - as she changes direction she glances at me at which point I either use my arm to signal which way I want her to go, or walk i into that direction. I only call her all the way back to me if I want her with me for a reason, like for a drink of water or if a situation in the field warrants it.
. |
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To live without dogs would mean accepting a form of blindness. [Thomas McGuane]
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List_House
Midland, Pa (western, Pa)
MH
Posts:142
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| 02/22/2011 5:45 PM |
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Pixie_ not really a confidence problem per say. When he was young and I was taking him out at a local club with the local "experienced" guys. He would not go more than 25yds so I asked about it. They said just let him gain confidence and he will range out. When he has his confidence he you can bring him back into range by calling "hacking" him back then he will learn what range you want him at?
During hunts in the begining he will range out pretty far. We don't have a lot of fields more woods. So he gets out of site in a hurry. I hunt him with a bell on. It is not like he will just take off and leave but he will get out of bell range? I don't use a whistle (long football history, just don't like them) but I am thinking I will have to, right now I whistle my self and that means HERE so he comes to me. But with the bell and the distance he may not here it? When "hacking" I was saying "CLOSE" everytime he hit the max distance I wanted him to go. But most of the time he would stop and wait for me. But it don't want him to stop and wait just don't keep getting further. How do I go about training him to "pay attention" That is what I was thinking I was doing by hacking him back.
Tessa_ I think I might get a whistle. I can call his name and point in a direction and he will go that way but I am thinking he will just go that direction to far.
Maybe describing the walks would work. I take them to local game lands. We walk the access roads he will run 100-150 yards in front down the roads then break off into the woods when he catches scent of something interesting. Most times he will loop back to the path without being called. There are times he will be out there a good while. I am also leary about deer. He has chased a few and I can call him back but he will give a good chase first. It may not be the best way but the only plan I have for that was be close enough to see him jump a deer and then Whallop him with the E collar. Unfortunately the E-collar I have does not have the range once he is 50-75 yds away it will not work. He always comes back when called and I am now able to Whoa him at distance (when there is no game) as well. I guess I need to know what a good hunting pattern should look like and then how to teach it.
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TessaGA
Georgia
MH
Posts:2387
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| 02/22/2011 7:58 PM |
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I am still learning how to figure out hunting patterns and wind directions etc - I am not very coordinated here - but I have learned how Tessa works a field. Everyone says she hunts well and makes good use of the wind, so I guess that would be a good hunting pattern to watch. She basically stays in front and weaves to the left and right but depending on the wind that changes up some. As far as I can tell.
There's cast work with a check cord - you might want to get a good DVD or better yet, find a pro trainer in your area and watch if he lets you. I found a trainer near me that gives free advice on Saturdays for anyone who makes the trip to his kennel. Very generous with his time and land and birds and there's a ton to learn by watching him work all levels of dogs (including mine!).
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To live without dogs would mean accepting a form of blindness. [Thomas McGuane]
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List_House
Midland, Pa (western, Pa)
MH
Posts:142
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| 02/22/2011 8:21 PM |
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The club I was a part of had a lot of guys with a lot of experience. I actually watched Bruce from Heavenly shorthairs test a few client dogs at one of our events. Wyatt has one leg of his JH but I only ran him twice. He passed once then the second time he went way out. I didn't call him back because I was under the impression that was bad. Well he got to the bird field and busted and caught a bird. He did bring it the 150+ yds back to me but after he found they were bad fliers he was not stopping just grabbing. So they had me pick him up? Anyway the judge said he hunted hard and used the wind well but he needed to point? GO FIGURE?
So I think he is doing all of that ok, I just need to reign him in a little. I am planning on getting a good number of birds and work on steadying him this spring. Maybe being around more birds will help with getting him closer. I will also work with your (tessa) suggestion of calling his name and pointing in a different direction...maybe combine that with my command "CLOSE" and see if that keeps him from stopping and waiting????
THANKS |
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Texas Belle
Austin, TX
MH
Posts:7835
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| 02/22/2011 8:34 PM |
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| My boy, Ringo, learned really fast he could catch the planted quail. I have started using launchers and so far that is working. I have been launching the birds as soon as he picks up scent. Now he is pointing further out and holding, but we still have some work to do. If I had access to wild birds I would get him on those, but the only place I have easy access too I have use pigeons or quail and plant them, so the launchers are helping allot. |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
   
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4448
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| 02/23/2011 6:05 AM |
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If it were my dog, this is what I would do.
You can use a whistle, you can whistle, or sometimes I use HoooHoooHooo to my dogs - all this means pay attention and it is learned thru repitition. When you do one of these things,or something else - I personally don't like 'close' for this b/c I use 'close' to mean stay really,really close but not at heel; make sure he is kinda near you so it is easy for him to check you out, then when he does wave your arm and walk in that direction - stop walikng torward him,he wants to be cooperative he just doesn't know what you want so he stops and waits for you - get him to understand that you want him to keep moving just not further out and we do this by turning the dog.
Turn often, you don't have to alert him every time - keep him on his toes. Also, in open cover I will stop and fiddle with something or pretend to tie my shoe, the dog should shorten up or come on by to heck out what you are doing. I will also check out some 'cover', this gets the dog thinking maybe they missed something and will come round to check it out.
I do all these things and more at early ages. My one dog is a ranger - he has learned thru experience to stay closer, but given the opportunity (open lands) he will goooooooo. He's not running, just stretching out far at a nice even stride.
Most puppies don't begin to range until about 4-6 months old. I have spoken to people who take this early range as "the" range for their new pup. Not so. I find that pups are not lacking in confidence but lacking boldness. In letting him gain confidence you didn't work on cooperation skills. This has caused his boldness to excel and his cooperation to diminish. He is a good dog and you can easily regain the cooperation. Work on enhancing cooperation skills, train directional commands,teach ff, if you haven't already, and work on retreiving proofing and delivering with a sit. Seed a field with dummies or dead birds - get him to understand that he needs to work a field slower and pick up and deliver everything he finds. Start the steadying process,even if only staedy to shot. All this emphises team work.
Hope this helps.
It is important to see what YOU are doing, b/c it is usually US who screws things up.
Maybe you can get someone to film you or watch and tell you what they see, your body posture, your expressions, your movements, your tone of voice,what the dog does in response to you or maybe he completely blows you off.
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4448
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| 02/23/2011 6:13 AM |
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I don't know if you are near Harrisburg - maybe you can contact Cind y Stahl at Honeyrun.
She may be able to help you. |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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List_House
Midland, Pa (western, Pa)
MH
Posts:142
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| 02/24/2011 5:18 PM |
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Pixie- Thank you...Those All seem like very good Ideas. I will try them. I am absolutely sure that it is me that is screwing things up. This is my first bird dog and I have read and talked with many who have master hunters, but I am sure I am not doing everything right. I have a video camera I will bring it along next time the weather is good and we go out. I don't want to send him to someone else because I want to do it myself. I am not looking for a master hunter, I am looking for a hunting partner. So if he is not perfect I am ok with this, but I want it to be a fun and safe experience for all of us.
As for Harrisburg no...I am about 45miles north of Pittsburgh.
Hopefully I will have a video for you to tell me how bad I am for the dog next time! ![<img src=]() " align="absMiddle" src="/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/blue/emoticons/smile.gif" />
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