Hello all!

I just adopted a GSP last November from a rescue.  He is about 3 now.  In general, he is a fantastic dog.  he is generally appropriately energetic, friendly with every person and dog he meets, and sweet as can be.  Unfortunately, his separation anxiety has been escalating.  I'm beginning to get frustrated with how long it is taking/will take to break him of this, so I am hoping that someone can provide some advice, and a realistic estimate on how much this might all take.  My main concern is that, because I cannot take weeks off from work, that every time I put him in the crate that isn't this "training" that we're doing, it's erasing the work I've done with him.  

Here's the basics: I crate trained him from the beginning, and in the beginning he was fine - not peeing in the crate, etc.  However, at the time, he was also sick ( I didn't know that then).  As he got better from his condition, his energy increased, and so did the separation anxiety.  He started howling constantly in his crate, and  peeing in it as well.  I tried DAP for awhile, and that helped - but only for about 2 months. Now, unless I have a bowl full of food for him, he refuses to go into the crate willingly.  Also, he is a total velcro dog now.  As I'm training him, if he is anxious, his mo is to pace and run around the house.  when he's calm, he lays on the couch and chews his bone - but it literally takes hours of going in and out of the house for increasing lengths of time to get to that point.

So - I'm interested in training him to be out of the crate while I'm gone, as I feel that is adding to his anxiety.  When he is out and about, even though he is anxious, he is much less so than when in the crate.  I've been trying to desensitize him to all of the leaving cues, giving him a bone to chew, etc. (b/c of his condition, he cannot have treats, so no kongs full of stuff, etc.) The problem is, every day is a new day - we have to start completely over from the beginning EVERY time.  He does not retain any of the calmness that exhibits by the end of the training session each day.  To top it off, in the mean time, I feel like I need to put him in the crate when I leave, b/c I don't want to risk destruction.  he has never chewed anything, but I worry about him peeing throughout the house and getting into food (I secure everything, but somehow he has managed in the past to get on top of the refrigerator, so I think he will be persistent).  Am I completely undoing everything when I do that?  And should I really need to completely start over from the beginning EVERY SINGLE DAY?  I am willing to put the time into it, but I think if someone could give me a realistic account of how long this takes and if I'm doing ok by him, it would really go along way.

So, I am in a very similar situation. Everything Splat said is spot on.

Aside from my two GSPs, my boyfriend has a 3 year old Kelpie mix, Molly, that he adopted from the humane society about 2 years ago. When we began dating just over a year ago, she had some urination problems in the house, but with time these went away. We developed a routine, 4 nights a week him and her came over and would spend the night. When he went to work, she would either stay with me on the weekends (he would be home in the evenings) or she would go to his parent's house. She was basically never left alone (here is a huge part of the problem - she was never left alone from the time he got her until we began dating because his mom always watched her while he was at work).

My 2 year old female GSP sleeps in a crate. My 6 year old male GSP has the option of his crate or our bed. When they first started staying the night, I insisted that she begin sleeping in a crate (if left loose, she would pee in the bathroom). He also bought a crate for his house that she would generally sleep in. She never had any problems sleeping in her crate at either place and would run upstairs and into her crate at bedtime.

Once he moved in at the start of this summer, we began having issues again. She would periodically pee on the kitchen rug when we left the dogs alone (this happened about 50% of the time and it didn't matter how long the dogs were left), and sometimes would be destructive (usually small things that belonged to my boyfriend, she chewed on a lighter, bent the tongs on a fork). Because of the peeing issue I began to work on crating her when we left. My boyfriend had tried crating her once in the past and she had totally freaked out so I was expecting the worst. I began with small increments of time, gradually increasing the duration. I don't crate my two GSPs unless my female is in season and did not really want to have to start so I crated her in our bedroom upstairs, TV on, bedroom door shut. I would block off the bottom of the stairs so the other two could not get up there. Initially this went fine and she could be left for several hours with no problems.

Since I'm the one that had been doing all of the crate training up until this point, I decided that my boyfriend needed to try crating her one day when we went to run errands. We came home after 4 hours and she had completely shredded her bed. Two days later, I crated her to go to the dr's office and she literally pulled up 3 of the wires on the crate, broke off several others, and was out of the crate when I got home (this was in about 90 minutes). We have since switched her to a Vari-kennel.

Since breaking out of the wire crate, we have installed a web cam to record her behavior. Not wanting her to hurt herself, we have been leaving all 3 dogs out downstairs. We videotaped her for almost 2 hours about 2 weeks ago - she did nothing but pace, whine, cry, and howl the entire time we were gone. I repeated this with just myself leaving and she laid down and went to sleep. It has become clear that her separation anxiety is centered around my boyfriend. I spoke with my vet and he agreed that because of the extreme nature of her anxiety, to put her on meds. We started her on Clomipramine (Clomicalm) a week and a half ago. So far her anxiety has improved, but the downside is she seems more lethargic and sedated. We can try bringing her dosage down, but if her anxiety increases we may need to switch her to Prozac.

Now currently my female is in heat so I have either been crating both her and Molly upstairs in our bedroom and leaving my male downstairs, or locking him in the bedroom and leaving the girls loose downstairs. My boyfriend is working on conditioning her to be ok away from him. He ignores her when he initially comes home from work. Since switching to a Vari-kennel it has taken some time for her to get used to it. Initially she did not want to go in at night, but after about a week she began going in on her own.

My suggestion is that I would talk to your vet. While I am not crazy about the idea of Molly being on meds, the videos of her were just heartbreaking. I'm giving the current med a few more weeks, will adjust her dosage, and see if the lethargy improves before trying Prozac. If she is left loose, she cannot have access to our bedroom as she has punched the screen out of the window in the past. While the hope is that the meds are just temporary, a dog may be on them long-term if the anxiety returns. But while on the meds, the training and conditioning should be more effective.

I would also try getting your dog to sleep in a kennel near your bed. One thing that was said in every article I've read on separation anxiety is not to let your dog sleep with you. If your dog gets used to sleeping in a crate it may help ease him into being able to be left alone in a crate without peeing or barking. When you do leave your dog alone, I would leave the TV or radio on so that he doesn't feel quite so alone.

Sorry for such a long post and good luck as this is not an easy thing to deal with!

Hi, I didn't read all the responses.
This is what I feel about your dog and your going about training him.
The most important thing to remember is that he IS learning - you need to keep it up so it becomes a pattern of behavior - it WILL - trust me - it may take a year but it will.
When he is pacing or acting anxious,stand tall,call him over and hold his collar - this will eventually make him sit. He doesn't know it yet but it will. teach a remaote sit - 1' away at first then expand - this will give you control. He is lacking the skills to comply b/c he doesn't know what the correct response should be. this you will teach him.

As far as the crate - well, this is a toughie. it will get better as his training sinks in.
I don't know why he is peeing so it's difficult to say what his real issue is. I would limit water hours before crating and see if that helps. If he is viewing the crate as punishment this is something he will have to either get over or live with. I would not offer food to entice him in. I would attempt toreteach the kennel command by having him go in,stay a few seconds and call him out. I would do this once, several times a day. Don't forget, he may be playing you at times,as well.
You now know why he was up for adoption. He was not properly understood - as a breed or a dog. Thank you for taking him in - he may never be perfect but he will be perfect enough!
Heck, my dogs are threatened with skinning and boiling water daily.
JUST KIDDING - (maybe)

Francine

 

All good advice here. I would just stress the excercise, the more excercise they get the calmer they are in the house and for training.

As for the "velcro" dog part. Both my GSP's were that way when first acquired. That is part of the bond building. They come to see you as the center of their world and they want to be with you. I think that is a good thing. Right now Zelda, acquired about 2 months ago will follow me everywhere. If we are relaxing and I get up to go to the kitchen, she gets up and follows. If  I go upstairs to get something, she follows. I know that eventually she will get used to our routine and this will slowly cease over time. That amount of time can be a year or more or maybe less. Our first GSP used to follow behind me while I was cutting the lawn. Back and forth about 8 feet behind me. I don't know where she though I was going. But it gets them good excercise also.

Be consistant and patient. Things will happen in good time.

Hi all.

Well, Karla is still new to us (just coming up on two weeks) and we've been trying to introduce her to short periods of separation, as, by September 13th, she is goinmg to have to spend her days, from about 8:30 - 3pm, alone.

She seemed to be absolutely FINE with the first few "trial" separations, with shorter time frames.  We extended that to about 3 hours earlier this week, and she got pretty upset, I think. She pooped in the house, etc.  Then the next day, she pooped in the house again - while my daughter was home, no less. Today, we had to leave her for 3 hours again, but this time we crated her, as she often went in the crate on her own and seemed to have no issue with it.

She seems to have really had a fit in that crate today...she pooped all over herself, I think, and was barking continously when my daughter came home.

I'd love to give her more time to get used to this,  but really, we have only 10 days, that's IT, until we MUST be away during the day for work and school.  We have no choice in the matter.  We don't HAVE a year for her to learn that this is OK, and I don't want her to have to spend her days in a crate.

Suggestions. anyone?

I think I would work with the crate and leaving her in a crate. Feed her in the crate and start her out slow with the door open, eventually working up to closing the door. Then start slowly extending the time while you are still in the room. Move to periods leaving her in the crate while you are in other rooms and eventually leaving the house. Be matter of fact about it and give her a command like kennel when you want her to go in. When you come to let her out do NOT let her out if she is doing anything but sitting quietly. You might even want to start putting her in her crate at night for sleeping. Also try leaving a radio or the TV on when start leaving her in the crate. Make the crate a wonderful, safe place for her. She will also learn that you are coming back. If you take a step forward and extend the time and she does not do well, you need to back up and go more slowly.

Also, think about doggy daycare for some of the days when you are gone. It is fun and they learn that you are coming back.

One other thing, make sure she has been well exercised and pooped and peed before you leave her in the crate.

My dog used to soil his crate (poop)  or outside his crate (when he broke out) with his separation anxiety. It took a year for him to be comfortable being left on his own. And he doesn't soil anymore. Unfortunately i have to say his anxiety stopped when we got our second dog, so can't actually help you with how to break the habit,but once it is better the soiling should stop.

Good luck