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laxhcky4
JH
Posts:23
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| 08/12/2010 12:58 PM |
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I have a 16 week old pup and I've work on recall 1-2 times a day for 5-10 minutes. We do this in the yard or in the street with a leash on and I'm struggling to make much progress. I give her a piece of food when she comes and pet her with a "good girl". Some days definitely go better than others but I'm feeling like shes just not getting it. She is a pretty independent pup.
I get about 4 different responses:
-just stop and look at me
-completely ignore that I said anything
-come slow
-come relatively fast (because she knows there is a treat)
I have heard never to give a command unless you can reinforce it so I try my best not to. When she does the first two listed above, I will give a little pop on the leash and reel her in. Should I praise when she gets to me? Should I be pulling her in or should I be going to her?
My other question is should I even be worrying about it at this early age? I don't want to put too much pressure on her and I want her to be a pup. I just feel like she should responding a bit better but being inexperienced, I thought I would ask for your opinions.
Thanks,
Garrett |
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4450
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| 08/12/2010 5:08 PM |
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5-10 minutes may be to long.
Call her once or twice, and you can do this 100 times a day, make sure she comes,praise when she gets to you and have a toy or treat if you want. Make her want to come to you. You may be boring her. Have you thrown objects for her to retrieve? If you do do it in a hallway or other such place where she has to to go straight to you,get kinda excited,let her hold on to the object a bit then gently take it from her and repeat a few more times.
You can get more formal and boring wen she is little older.
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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Texas Belle
Austin, TX
MH
Posts:7844
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| 08/12/2010 9:14 PM |
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| I suspect you need to make this activity more fun. If you become the center of her universe the rest becomes easy. Variety is the spice of life and that is especially true with a shorthair. Very smart dogs and they get bored easily. So, mix up what you do for a recall. I love to keep my dogs guessing as it also builds focus. So when you call her, mix up the routine. Instead of the pop and reel her in routine, turn and run away. She will chase and move faster. When she gets to you make it a party. Another game is when she is coming to you toss a toy or treat between you legs and let her run to it. If you mix it up she will start showing more enthusiasm. If the only way you can get her to come to you is to reel her in and you are dragging her, stop and rethink what you are doing. Any time you drag them in to you, you end up with a negative situation. The other thing this indicates is she does not know what you want her to do. So, back up in your recall training and proceed more slowly. I will say, the recall is the hardest to train and it takes thousands of repetitions. Be sure your dog understands what you are asking before you progress. Good luck and be sure you training is always fun. |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
   
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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therozypozy
MH
Posts:470
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| 08/13/2010 12:57 PM |
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I agree with Bev on this. We usually use the long lead (25 feet) and someone distracts the puppy and then you call your puppy and turn and run, and yes it is a big party when the puppy catches up with you. Another thing we will do is have someone restrain the puppy, not by a leash (although the long lead is still attached for some control if the puppy does not run toward you), but with the their hands across their chest and then you call the puppy and run. The person will release the puppy once it puts up a struggle to run toward you. They are even more anxious to get to you and will run to catch up and again, another party when they are successful.
You definitely do not want to pull them. We use tension on the leash to teach a good sit stay, because the more you pull on the leash, the more they pull back. For the sit stay, when you use just the right amount of tension on the leash, this teaches them a nice upright tight sit stay. |
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RCNZ
New Zealand
JH
Posts:26
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| 10/14/2010 8:47 PM |
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Nothing personal but I completely disagree with a lot of what's been said.
In my opinion there are two problems with what you're doing. 1. Your using food and making it an optional exercise and 2. You're boring the piss out of your dog
Recall isn't a request it's a command that can not be disobeyed. Ever. Stop and come are the foundation of training. It's not an option that the dog should be lured into with a treat it needs to be a compulsion.
That being said you can't hammer on recall with a 16 week old puppy. More than a few times a day just pisses your pup off and if you're too harsh you'll turn the dog off training all together.
I would start completely differently. Get yourself a bit of clothesline and make a light check cord around 20ft long. Walk your pup in a field and let it sniff butterflies and all that crap. When the pup isn't paying attention to you give it the recall command, give it a half second to respond (literally .5 sec) then walk calmly toward the pup using the lead to keep the dog from running off.
Do not reel the pup in.
When you get to the pup take the pup calmly but firmly by the collar and walk it back to where you called it from and give it a pat on the head and a bit of praise. Don't go over the top with your praise. Don't expect speed at this point, just response and a straight return.
Independent pups almost always initially get worse and try and dodge you when you go to get them. It is very very important to never lose your temper and get harsh with the dog. It's actually a good thing when they try and figure out how to get out of listening. At some point, and with smart pups it doesn't take long, the pup will suddenly respond quickly every time.
When the dog responds quickly independently, that's the time to give them a bunch of praise. When they are responding 100% of the time then as soon as the pup turns to come back to you and it's attention is focused on you, that's when you start to do the whole run away thing.
Remember that when doing the run away trick that the dog must run TO you not
BY you. If the dog starts running by you go back a step.
Slowly add distractions once the pup is coming every time you call it in the field.
The trick to creating reliable commands is getting the dog to come to the realization that it must comply every time regardless of whether it wants to or not. This must happen FIRST. After that you can make it fun for speedy recalls and as long as you aren't harsh with the dog in the initial training, it'll be easy.
If you start out by making the dog want to come to you, it's a real pain to get the dog to the point that it knows it has to come to you.
I know people think that you have to make it "fun" for the pup from the get go but I wholeheartedly disagree. As long as you don't make it harsh for the pup initially and gain the respect of the dog for you and the command, making it fun for the pup later revs up the dogs interest in training just as much. |
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Texas Belle
Austin, TX
MH
Posts:7844
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| 10/14/2010 10:17 PM |
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RCNZ - You may disagree with the methods discussed in this thread, but I can assure you that they do work. I know for a fact that at least two of the dogs that have been trained using the methods described have received High in Trial in National competition which is no mean feat. Additionally, all of my dogs are 100% reliable on a recall period. I can call them from anywhere and off of any game and they will return to me immediately. So, you may scoff at the methods described, but they work and work well.
I am not saying your method won't work too, but let's be clear here, there are many methods that can be used to teach a recall and several are described in this thread. Dismissing methods because you personally do not agree with them IMHO is narrow minded. The original poster asked for advice on methods for training recall and I think you should stick to giving your advice and refrain from commentary on others advice. And yes, it was personal. |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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Cricketdog
MH
Posts:73
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| 10/15/2010 11:44 AM |
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I agree with Bev whole heartedly. I occassionaly teach at a local obedience club and we use positive motivation, including food, which is a great tool. For my recalls, I only use the best treats...left over steak. And the recall is the only time my dogs get steak. Don't be afraid to have a party and make a fool of yourself everytime your pup comes back to you. They will think you hung the moon.
Cathy |
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In my next life, I want to come back as my dog...what a life!
www.tomcatkennels.com |
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RCNZ
New Zealand
JH
Posts:26
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| 10/17/2010 8:52 PM |
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Posted By Texas Belle on 10/14/2010 10:17 PM
RCNZ - You may disagree with the methods discussed in this thread, but I can assure you that they do work. I know for a fact that at least two of the dogs that have been trained using the methods described have received High in Trial in National competition which is no mean feat. Additionally, all of my dogs are 100% reliable on a recall period. I can call them from anywhere and off of any game and they will return to me immediately. So, you may scoff at the methods described, but they work and work well.
I am not saying your method won't work too, but let's be clear here, there are many methods that can be used to teach a recall and several are described in this thread. Dismissing methods because you personally do not agree with them IMHO is narrow minded. The original poster asked for advice on methods for training recall and I think you should stick to giving your advice and refrain from commentary on others advice. And yes, it was personal.
I never said it couldn't work and I didn't mean to suggest that it can't. I will however contest the idea that it will work with all dogs all the time. I can guarantee it wouldn't work with at least one of my dogs as toys and treats have zero significance to him, only praise and game. In my experience if the dog never receives any consequences for disobeying the command (not punishment, reinforcement) then it never becomes absolute. To me the critical part of training is not how you handle it when the dog obeys (though that is important) but how you handle it when the dog disobeys. I could be wrong but I've seen a lot of people attempt it your way and fail. Maybe they did it wrong. Who knows. It doesn't matter.
Sorry but two dogs scoring high in trial doesn't make it an effective universal technique. It may in fact be but I've yet to meet a consistently successful pro trial trainer that works that way.
Regardless of whether it works or not I still disagree with it. You're becoming the "center of your dogs world" by bribing it. I do the same by teaching them that they have to listen every single time. I think my way translates into a better behaved dog all the way around and translates into other aspects of training because the dog regards the handler as a leader and not a treat/toy dispenser. Moreover I feel it works with every dog every time.
It's my opinion. If you disagree, that's fine. I won't call you narrow minded.
I wonder though, do you force fetch your dogs? |
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