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lameduck
SH
Posts:44
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| 08/09/2010 7:10 AM |
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| I saw Maude & Torsti's post and talking about skitish or gun shy dogs. I
have a friend
that had a gun shy dog. He took it to a guy that said he could fix it. The
guy tied an
old cooking pan on a short cord to the dog. the dog couldn't take a step
with out the pan
dragging behind him. The first two or three days the dog just laid down
and wouldn't
move except to drink and maybe eat. After a short while the dog got to
moving around and
now the dog is bold and noise don't bother the dog. He is not gun shy with
one gun. I don't
know how it will be with 8 or 10 shooters, we'll see but so far looks
good. When we train the
way we do a lot of the shooting takes place out in the field where they
throw the birds or
dummies. Its easy to overlook the shooting beside the dog like in the duck
blind. And training
retrievers its even easier to overlook the shooting over the dogs with
them in front of the
guns. It must be an awesome experience the first time 10-12 guns empty
with the shot string
going over fidos head.
Ron
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jmurr
MH
Posts:158
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| 08/09/2010 10:56 AM |
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| That's a new one on me, Ron.
I can imagine variations that could be used after the dog got accustomed to the
cooking pan banging around behind it that would be more like gunfire if necessary.
Jere
> I saw Maude & Torsti's post and talking about skitish or gun shy dogs. I
> have a friend
> that had a gun shy dog. He took it to a guy that said he could fix it. The
> guy tied an
> old cooking pan on a short cord to the dog. the dog couldn't take a step
> with out the pan
> dragging behind him. The first two or three days the dog just laid down
> and wouldn't
> move except to drink and maybe eat. After a short while the dog got to
> moving around and
> now the dog is bold and noise don't bother the dog. He is not gun shy with
> one gun. I don't
> know how it will be with 8 or 10 shooters, we'll see but so far looks
> good. When we train the
> way we do a lot of the shooting takes place out in the field where they
> throw the birds or
> dummies. Its easy to overlook the shooting beside the dog like in the duck
> blind. And training
> retrievers its even easier to overlook the shooting over the dogs with
> them in front of the
> guns. It must be an awesome experience the first time 10-12 guns empty
> with the shot string
> going over fidos head.
>
> Ron
>
>
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rospigan
MH
Posts:372
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| 08/09/2010 12:15 PM |
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I do not think Larka needs to be tied to the lawn
mover :- )) Her fear for it decreases slowly and next summer I believe she will
be accustomed to the noise it makes. BTW the old noisy one broke down the other
day and now I have a new one that is considerably more quiet.
Basically Ron's new method is correct. Do not let
the dog escape from frightening things, of course unless there is a real reason
for fear. If it once have learned to escape, then it will try to escape even
more the next time.
Sunnie was the opposite - again. When I used an
electric power saw I had to keep her away from it since she came very close to
investigate the noisy thing. When Foxy was a couple of years old and was resting
on the lawn she almost refused to move when I came when I came with the
lawn mover.
Miss Sophie escaped to the next county in the same
situation. Springer did not care much but still showed a healthy respect to such
machines.
So there seems to be an endless variation in the
reaction to different kind of noise and gunfire.
The dead router has been buried and replaced with a
new one, computers are in order for the moment, the 243W is sighted in with
freshly loaded ammo, roe-deer bucks are allowed from next Monday
morning.....what else is there to ask for?
Torsti
Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 7:27 PM
Subject: Re: [working-gundog] Spooky Dogs
That's a new one on me, Ron.
I can imagine variations that
could be used after the dog got accustomed to the
cooking pan banging around
behind it that would be more like gunfire if necessary.
Jere
>
I saw Maude & Torsti's post and talking about skitish or gun shy dogs.
I
> have a friend
> that had a gun shy dog. He took it to a guy that
said he could fix it. The
> guy tied an
> old cooking pan on a short
cord to the dog. the dog couldn't take a step
> with out the pan
>
dragging behind him. The first two or three days the dog just laid down
>
and wouldn't
> move except to drink and maybe eat. After a short while the
dog got to
> moving around and
> now the dog is bold and noise don't
bother the dog. He is not gun shy with
> one gun. I don't
> know how
it will be with 8 or 10 shooters, we'll see but so far looks
> good. When
we train the
> way we do a lot of the shooting takes place out in the
field where they
> throw the birds or
> dummies. Its easy to
overlook the shooting beside the dog like in the duck
> blind. And
training
> retrievers its even easier to overlook the shooting over the
dogs with
> them in front of the
> guns. It must be an awesome
experience the first time 10-12 guns empty
> with the shot string
>
going over fidos head.
>
>
Ron
>
>
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stuwest
JH
Posts:39
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| 08/09/2010 1:17 PM |
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| This has been my experience.
On 8/9/2010 1:45 PM, Maud & Torsti wrote:
> So there seems to be an endless variation in the reaction to different
> kind of noise and gunfire.
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stuwest
JH
Posts:39
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| 08/09/2010 1:18 PM |
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| I have shifted to telling clients that ALL dogs are 'instinctually'
frightened of sudden impact noise
and have to overcome it to successfully operate as dogs or wolves
Dozens of theories/methods of recovery available.
Too many of my clients take started pups and shoot 10ga over them next
day...
Hard to fix stupid.
On 8/9/2010 12:27 PM, Jere Murray wrote:
> That's a new one on me, Ron.
>
> I can imagine variations that could be used after the dog got accustomed to the
> cooking pan banging around behind it that would be more like gunfire if necessary.
>
> Jere
>
>
>> I saw Maude& Torsti's post and talking about skitish or gun shy dogs. I
>> have a friend
>> that had a gun shy dog. He took it to a guy that said he could fix it. The
>> guy tied an
>> old cooking pan on a short cord to the dog. the dog couldn't take a step
>> with out the pan
>> dragging behind him. The first two or three days the dog just laid down
>> and wouldn't
>> move except to drink and maybe eat. After a short while the dog got to
>> moving around and
>> now the dog is bold and noise don't bother the dog. He is not gun shy with
>> one gun. I don't
>> know how it will be with 8 or 10 shooters, we'll see but so far looks
>> good. When we train the
>> way we do a lot of the shooting takes place out in the field where they
>> throw the birds or
>> dummies. Its easy to overlook the shooting beside the dog like in the duck
>> blind. And training
>> retrievers its even easier to overlook the shooting over the dogs with
>> them in front of the
>> guns. It must be an awesome experience the first time 10-12 guns empty
>> with the shot string
>> going over fidos head.
>>
>> Ron
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
--
Stu West
Rush River Highlands
/"The Lure of the Wild"/
N4758 350th Street
Elmwood, Wisconsin 54740
(715) 639-3900 h&w (715) 307-7804 c
StuWest@AlmaBottom.com www.AlmaBottom.com
Women and Cats will do as they please.
Men and Dogs should relax and get used to the idea.
-Robert Heinlein
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rospigan
MH
Posts:372
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| 08/09/2010 11:57 PM |
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This is a conversasion I have with an owner of a
dog that is far from spooky but seems to be a strong character:
>><
>>>>
Question: My Labrador has been good lately, impressing people at the classes but
the wretch still wont bring the retrieve to hand, hangs on to it and yet when
we are alone he always presents it most perfectly. It is so annoying as he
has real flair and style and this spoils it in public. Obviously having a
very long teenage phase as he is now
4!>>>>
>>>My answer: I can´t tell for sure
what goes on in the head of dogs, particularly not in the head of mentally
strong dogs like yours. I remember our old ES Foxy, maybe from 9 years old
and all the way to her end at nearly 14, she was allowed to have this habbit
when hunting or training. We let her do it in order to make her feel strong, now
that age had started to slightly weaken her (remember her struggle with
tumours). She was allowed to circle with birds or dummies while we stood
watching laughing but at the same time pretended to be angry - just to make her
feel that she was strong enough to break our rules. It was very obvious that she
loved this game and grew from it and felt good. Still we had to control her to
some extent, otherwise she had ran away and propably eaten the bird. So in the
game there was a mutual give and take, we got the bird in the end and she was
allowed to have fun and feel strong.
So I do not think, without knowing for sure, that
this is a teenage thing to your lab. It is a social thing. My guess is that you
were not firm enough in front of the public from the start and he
remembers and utilizes that
situation. >>>>>>
Well, the main problem here is not the dog. The main problem is a
politically correct audience that would raise hell if the dog was corrected the
way I would recommend to correct it.
Any suggestiones?
Torsti
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lameduck
SH
Posts:44
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| 08/10/2010 3:38 PM |
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| I had a dog that I tried to field trial, Awesome marker and would do
unbelievable
blind retrieves. He could count. He thought the last bird was his. HE
would freexe
i the last bird. IF Yu did a double he would come back with the first bird
and heel
and sit and give You the bird and then when You said his name He would
haul out to
the next bird, grab it come in and heel and sit and never move. He
wouldn't release
the bird. He wouldn't much, chew or anything, He just wouldn't release the
bird. In
training he was perfect, but at a trial what ever the last bird was he
figured it was
his. I could be a single, double, triple or a quad. Last one was his. I
finally retired
him from trials and just hunted him No judges there and he wouldn't freeze
on the bird.
Ron
. > This is a conversasion I have with an owner of a dog that is far from
> spooky but seems to be a strong character:
>
>>><
>>>>> Question: My Labrador has been good lately, impressing people at the
>>>>> classes but the wretch still won't bring the retrieve to hand, hangs
>>>>> on to it and yet when we are alone he always presents it most
>>>>> perfectly. It is so annoying as he has real flair and style and this
>>>>> spoils it in public. Obviously having a very long teenage phase as
>>>>> he is now 4!>>>>
>
>>>>My answer: I can´t tell for sure what goes on in the head of dogs,
>>>> particularly not in the head of mentally strong dogs like yours. I
>>>> remember our old ES Foxy, maybe from 9 years old and all the way to her
>>>> end at nearly 14, she was allowed to have this habbit when hunting or
>>>> training. We let her do it in order to make her feel strong, now that
>>>> age had started to slightly weaken her (remember her struggle with
>>>> tumours). She was allowed to circle with birds or dummies while we
>>>> stood watching laughing but at the same time pretended to be angry -
>>>> just to make her feel that she was strong enough to break our rules. It
>>>> was very obvious that she loved this game and grew from it and felt
>>>> good. Still we had to control her to some extent, otherwise she had ran
>>>> away and propably eaten the bird. So in the game there was a mutual
>>>> give and take, we got the bird in the end and she was allowed to have
>>>> fun and feel strong.
>
> So I do not think, without knowing for sure, that this is a teenage thing
> to your lab. It is a social thing. My guess is that you were not firm
> enough in front of the public from the start and he remembers and utilizes
> that situation. >>>>>>
>
> Well, the main problem here is not the dog. The main problem is a
> politically correct audience that would raise hell if the dog was
> corrected the way I would recommend to correct it.
>
> Any suggestiones?
>
> Torsti
> BORTA MED VINDENS KENNEL
> "Ask not what your dog can do for you,
> ask what you can do for your dog"
> www.rospigan.net
> eller
> www.rospigan.has.it
>
>
>
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rospigan
MH
Posts:372
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| 08/10/2010 11:42 PM |
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Thats a wondeful story about a dogs sagacity, Ron,
and a good example of how we should never underestimate a dogs ability to think
one more step ahead!
This is what I suggested as a
possible "medicine" for the annoying lab that was disobedient only in front
of public:
>>> I would do what another dog would do
in the same situation, that is if a dog that is supposed to be an underdog would
challenge me who should be the top dog. I would kneel down beside him and bite
his ear, growling at the same time and then, without any hesitation, stand up,
turn my back to him and walk away without looking at him or taking any
notice of him anymore for a long time. However, if you do this in public it must
be a very carefully selected public :- ))
Instead my
suggestion is that to arrange a situation with public and other dogs and then
watch him very carefully. At the very fraction of a second when he is to deviate
from the course towards you, you just turn your back at him and walk away
rapidly. Walk away all the way to the car and go home, have it arranged that
someone else takes him back home. This someone should be totally neutral to the
dog, look at him as little as possible, just enough to get him into another car
but drive him home with a good delay, perhaps a few hours of pondering in a
strange car. When he comes home continue to ignore him for a day or two.
Give him food and water but no further attention whatsoever. After a few days
repeat and see what happens. I cannot guarantee any results but dogs ARE pack
animals and want to be part of a pack. If they find that their pack is not
pleased with them they most often try to make up. By totally neglecting a
disobedient pack member you show that it is not worth your attention and that
should possibly strengthen your leadership. I said "possibly" since I do not
know the dog too well.>>>
Torsti
Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 12:08 AM
Subject: Re: [working-gundog] Spooky Dogs
I had a dog that I tried to field trial, Awesome marker and would
do
unbelievable
blind retrieves. He could count. He thought the last bird
was his. HE
would freexe
i the last bird. IF Yu did a double he would come
back with the first bird
and heel
and sit and give You the bird and then
when You said his name He would
haul out to
the next bird, grab it come in
and heel and sit and never move. He
wouldn't release
the bird. He wouldn't
much, chew or anything, He just wouldn't release the
bird. In
training he
was perfect, but at a trial what ever the last bird was he
figured it
was
his. I could be a single, double, triple or a quad. Last one was his.
I
finally retired
him from trials and just hunted him No judges there and
he wouldn't freeze
on the bird.
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