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Ace1cappuccino
Carp Lake, Michigan
MH
Posts:1618
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| 01/02/2008 5:06 PM |
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If you have 2 dogs that have the same crosses in their lines, how many generations need to be apart before you breed with them. Lets say that one dogs sire is the others grandsire but both have different bitches.
Also are more crosses better? I will be getting a pup that will have like3 or 4 crosses of Rawhide's clown in 4 generations.
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Cornell's GSP'S- Mocha cappuccino, Lili Belle Lotte, Sir Leopold Vom Hunter 1, Lil Miss Lotte Doddi, Ace Hunter Twisted Mister(GSP'S)  
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Trey
SW Iowa
MH
Posts:516
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| 01/02/2008 8:39 PM |
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Those crosses are fine and not too close, as long as the dogs involved were all great dogs with some health clearances.
Have you seen or hunted over the parents of this pup, or do they have titles in the sports you want to compete, test in with your dogs? If they do, I wouldn't worry about it. You can probably hit any field trial and see some clown dogs that are bred much tighter if you want to get some idea of what you are going to have.
My female is very tightly linebred, by someone who has been involved in the breed for 20 plus years and knew what he was aiming for, and got it. Now, I just did an outcross with her, to a dog that compliments where I think she needs it (she could have a better rear end, but I am very pickey about dogs).
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Ace1cappuccino
Carp Lake, Michigan
MH
Posts:1618
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| 01/03/2008 7:07 PM |
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 The sire is FC Ranger's Hedge Rise L.B., FC Martin's Rawhide Ranger MH, Rawhide's clown, 2 crosses of clown,2 crosses of FC Jigs White Smoke, and Dixieland's Rebel, The Bitch is out of FC NC Showtime's Rollin Thunder, Clown, 2X NSTRA CH Rawhide's Blazin Josie, 2X CH General Shultz, NSTRA CH JC Gold Max Molly, 3X CH General Norman, NC NSDC FC BMK's Strike the Gold and some others within 4 generations. My male would be bred to a pup from this litter if he will suit her. 
My male has FC Kojac's K-Man, FC/AFC Rusty's Blue Earth Rexx, NFC/FC Dixieland's Rusty,Clown, Pipeline's Lone Star Cowboy, Bobtailed Bandit, Coca Cola Cowboy, and some others in 4 generations.
The only thing I know of with my male is he is not really wide chested. I have looked at lots of the dogs in his lines and they are all built just like him. All the way back to Rusty! I am hoping this new pup will be a good match for him when she gets old enough. I will not be showing in the ring but I will be hunting hard core and hopefully getting into some field trials with both of them.
I know the hunting drive should be phenominal. I am just wondering about the structure as I was told these were field lines. Does that mean that you can't show them though?
I do like the wider chest as both my females have but would that count against the male in a show? |
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Cornell's GSP'S- Mocha cappuccino, Lili Belle Lotte, Sir Leopold Vom Hunter 1, Lil Miss Lotte Doddi, Ace Hunter Twisted Mister(GSP'S)
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markj
Posts:17
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| 01/08/2008 3:30 PM |
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| Clown has show champs in his offspring. Need to know a lot more about them to say what is what. Clown dogs did well in some breedings, I have had 3 now so far all did well. Naturals at retriving and held solid points. Never missed a bird. |
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Pointer Fan
Westminster, Colorado
MH
Posts:954
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| 01/08/2008 5:06 PM |
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| Our dog has Clown blood on both sides of her pedigree. We don't hunt but Molly was pointing robins at 8 weeks and when we take her to the large off leash park she ignores the other dogs and goes to work kicking up birds. She is a very stable dog--not neurotic or prone to separation anxiety. |
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Ace1cappuccino
Carp Lake, Michigan
MH
Posts:1618
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| 01/09/2008 5:57 PM |
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The owner of the parents uses them on guided hunts. The sire is a FC. The bitch is used for hunts as well. Depending on whether I get one from his Missy litter or Rawhide's Blazin Josie (missy's mom) the lines are awesome. I am hoping this will give me an outstanding hunting dog and future breeder. After health tests.
Has anyone out there bought a pup from shadymeadowsgundogs? He has lots of dogs but I am sure someone here has some knowledge of them? |
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Cornell's GSP'S- Mocha cappuccino, Lili Belle Lotte, Sir Leopold Vom Hunter 1, Lil Miss Lotte Doddi, Ace Hunter Twisted Mister(GSP'S)
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MOOSE1
Fruitport, MI
MH
Posts:1789
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| 01/10/2008 7:45 AM |
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Bill-
I found more people on www.gundogforum.com had knowledge of him. Try going their and talking to some folks. Very nice board as well! |
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Rajah-APBT- USUV UMJCH Flying High Rajah-TDI Certified
Phoenix-GSP- USJCH UWP GRCH BNJ Shooters Rising Phoenix-CGC Tested
Cody- GSP- AKC/CKC CH UKC UWP GRCH Legacyk n Estate Sunray Minor FDJ CGC Tested
Tucson-UJJ CH Legacyk FlwrCrk The Old Peublo
Rumor-UMJ URO1 GRCH BNJ Rumor Has It-RN RD CGC NA II
www.ezydog.com |
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Ace1cappuccino
Carp Lake, Michigan
MH
Posts:1618
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| 01/11/2008 3:20 PM |
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| OK, I have been on the versatiledog site looking too. I have to get Belle in and checked(hips) My friend wants to stud her with his Hege-Haus dog. Huge solid liver and an awesome hunter. |
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Cornell's GSP'S- Mocha cappuccino, Lili Belle Lotte, Sir Leopold Vom Hunter 1, Lil Miss Lotte Doddi, Ace Hunter Twisted Mister(GSP'S)
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markj
Posts:17
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| 01/24/2008 2:06 PM |
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" Hege-Haus dog"
Who is belle out of? Which hege-haus dog? Not too many left but I do know of a few yet. |
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Ace1cappuccino
Carp Lake, Michigan
MH
Posts:1618
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Ace1cappuccino
Carp Lake, Michigan
MH
Posts:1618
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| 01/26/2008 12:04 PM |
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| He has Kastor, Elk, Yacki,Linda,Rauhreif,Helfer,elsa, etc. I noticed they are very strongly line bred back there too! Hopefully it will pass on to the pups? |
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Cornell's GSP'S- Mocha cappuccino, Lili Belle Lotte, Sir Leopold Vom Hunter 1, Lil Miss Lotte Doddi, Ace Hunter Twisted Mister(GSP'S)
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4452
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| 01/31/2008 10:38 AM |
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ACE1,
you know a dog that has the hege-haus name in the dog's registered name and it's not from that kennel?
HHMMM!
The dogs you mentioned are kind of back there,unless you breed with a dog that has them closer up you probably won't see any of those dogs.
Francine |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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Ace1cappuccino
Carp Lake, Michigan
MH
Posts:1618
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| 01/31/2008 6:28 PM |
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I didn't name the dog! The owner named him Shooter Vom Hege- Haus. 3rd generation back 3 of the parents are pure Hege Haus. I know that the "body work" passed on into Mocha. If you look on my earlier post you will see the names of them. I had posted this question as I wanted to use the rawhide name in my new girl as she will have four crosses of Clown in her. I asked and realized I shouldn't use it and won't. I was not trying to "steal" a kennel name. I was just wanting to show some of the lineage in her. I am still planning to cross his dog with Belle. I won't be putting the Hege Haus name into their names. It is nice to be able to show ppl what is in the lines though. I am still trying to figure out the linebreeding thing.
I was not intending or trying to brag about the Hege Haus line. Maybe he got permission to use it? If you look at his 3rd generation through Quinta Vom Enzstrand, Proud Vom Otterbach, and Amicas Proud Capo it is pure Hege - Haus. I was un able to trace Gecko Vom Hinshen - Hof. It looks to me like a very good bloodline as I got the wide chested, super muscle dog I was after.
Didn't mean this to sound snobby but I hope it got my idea across. |
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Cornell's GSP'S- Mocha cappuccino, Lili Belle Lotte, Sir Leopold Vom Hunter 1, Lil Miss Lotte Doddi, Ace Hunter Twisted Mister(GSP'S)
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4452
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| 02/01/2008 2:25 PM |
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I knew what you meant.You didn't have to explain.
What are you trying to figure out with line breeding?
In theory, it's quite simple.
In/line breeding starts the same as an outcross.Make sure the dogs compliment each other and compensate for each other.
Know the good, the bad and the ugly about all the dogs that will repeat once,twice,three times,ect. Know what you want from these dogs and know what can show up that you don't want.
Moreso with in/line breeding the dogs need to be as perfect a specimen as possible. And this is the important part, the breeder needs to be able to recognize a near perfect specimen when they see one. Kennel blindness has caused many an unwanted puppy,if you ask me.
If you know of any kennels that in/line breed it would be a good idea to try and follow(as in research not actually do) what they have done.View pictures,follow show ring results,field results and health.
I'm sure you know all of this already. If you have any specific question, throw them out here.
Francine |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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Ace1cappuccino
Carp Lake, Michigan
MH
Posts:1618
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| 02/01/2008 9:38 PM |
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I am just trying to understand how it works. If you go to like West Wind GSP they have a ton of I think enzstrand dogs. Does the crossing of certain dogs mean line breeding or is it the kennel? I see alot where the sire is involved 3 or 4 times in a 3 - 4 generation of 1 dog.
The hege haus dog I was referring to above has 3 dogs in his side and when I looked back up to 5 - 6 gens back almost every dog was a hege haus. I hope I am not sounding too dense but I want to learn this if it kills me. So like if the sire's dad was the sire of the dad of the other dog and he also was the sire of the dame he was bred with. Is that line or inbreeding? It is easier to see this on paper than in my head so I hope I am saying it like I mean. I guess what I mean is if there was an awesome dog. Pretty correct and a great hunter. How many times in say a 4 generation should he appear and be safe?
The pup I was supposed to get last year was from a daughter of Kojac's K-Man. My male's grandsire was Kojac's k-man. Would that be too close to cross? It doesn't matter as the litter didn't work out (story of my life) but does that show what I am asking?
Thanks for any help.
Bill |
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Cornell's GSP'S- Mocha cappuccino, Lili Belle Lotte, Sir Leopold Vom Hunter 1, Lil Miss Lotte Doddi, Ace Hunter Twisted Mister(GSP'S)
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4452
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| 02/02/2008 2:56 PM |
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My gosh, I hope this breeder knows what they are doing and if they are prepared for mishaps.
This is an extremely tight example you are stating.
Francine |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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Ace1cappuccino
Carp Lake, Michigan
MH
Posts:1618
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| 02/03/2008 7:12 AM |
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| The crosses on the hege haus dog are not the same dog, same line though. |
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Cornell's GSP'S- Mocha cappuccino, Lili Belle Lotte, Sir Leopold Vom Hunter 1, Lil Miss Lotte Doddi, Ace Hunter Twisted Mister(GSP'S)
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4452
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| 02/03/2008 8:26 AM |
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A kennel name is only the kennel name.You can consider seeing the kennel name several times within a pedigree as breeding on that kennel's ideals.
It is only when names repeat in a litter is it considered in/line breeding.
Francine
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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Ace1cappuccino
Carp Lake, Michigan
MH
Posts:1618
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| 02/04/2008 8:13 AM |
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| Ok but how many times should a particular dogs name be in a 3-4 generation and still be safe? If it was a great dog? |
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Cornell's GSP'S- Mocha cappuccino, Lili Belle Lotte, Sir Leopold Vom Hunter 1, Lil Miss Lotte Doddi, Ace Hunter Twisted Mister(GSP'S)
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4452
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| 02/04/2008 8:51 AM |
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I can't answer that question.Much depends on the genes of the dogs and what the breeder is hoping to accomplish.The more a dog(s) appear in the pedigree the smaller the gene pool is.This is sure to bring up,very quickly, serious faults.
Everyone has a different opinion of what a great dog is. Is your opinion of a great dog the same as the breeder who would be making this breeding?
So, what is a great dog?
Francine |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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