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wems2371 Eastern Iowa
 MH Posts:169


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| 07/13/2010 8:26 AM |
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As I sit down to fill in another entry form, I am still wondering when my 14.5 month old girl will come into season. My instructor has assured me it's okay to show a bitch in season, but just to mention it to the judge before he/she runs her hands over her. I have a limited amount of shows near me, so I don't want to miss any, and I definitely don't want to forfeit entry fees. Just curious what others thoughts were...
My second question has to do with the point system, which I'm learning as I go. I've got the easy part of Winner's Bitch and Winner's Dog figured out. What I am curious about is when there aren't say enough bitches to get a point, like being the only one, but there are enough males. If the bitch goes on to be overall Winners or BOB, will she get points for the males she beat? The show I was at this weekend had only one non-special male, and as my more experienced friend explained it, he would get pointed too because while we both had Winners B & D--he got overall Winners. I ask this, because if I'm entered in a show where I can't get a point due to bitch numbers, I'm wondering if it's still possible to get them if there are dog numbers available...or if it's impossible to where I'd rather forfeit my entry fees and save on gas and such. Hope that makes sense... |
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Countrysides Red Hot Roxi http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=1176 Snips Bring It On Brandi http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=1711 |
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Willowglen Fort Collins, CO
 MH Posts:216


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| 07/13/2010 9:27 AM |
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You can absolutely show a bitch in season. My girl went into season 2 days before Nationals last year. I would definitely tell the judge as they will often want to disinfect their hands after examining your girl. I would also carry a paper towel in your pocket and wipe her off before entering the ring, as well as any spots that hit the floor. In addition, the polite thing to do is stand a good distance away from any males. Let other exhibitors know that she is in heat so they can keep their males away from her.
As far as the points go, going Best of Winners means you get whichever sex had the most points available. So say that it is 1 point in bitches and 3 points in dogs, if the bitch goes Best of Winners she picks up a 3 point major (mind that it is 3 points total, not 3 plus the 1 from bitches). So if you are the only bitch entered and there are enough males to make it worth at least 1 point, then going Best of Winners would be worth 1 point. It gets more tricky when you talk about going Best Op over other specials or going Best of Breed over specials. If you go Best Op, you get to count the specials of the same sex plus the class entry of your sex when calculating points; Best of Breed gets to count all specials plus the class entry of your sex for points. You can always check with the steward to see what the final count was in dogs/bitches to see how many points it was worth since they will know who was marked absent. I HIGHLY recommend checking the tear sheets (the sheets the judge's turn in following judging) when you win your majors to ensure that the correct number was marked. These will be at the superintendent's table. I have heard of people who's dog did not get credited the major win because the judge marked the wrong number and they then had to go to the AKC and try and prove that their dog had won.
I hope that made sense. It can be very confusing, but the good news is that it starts to make sense once you are in a situation where it applies to you. |
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Christine Willow Glen GSPs & Weimaraners www.willowglengsp.com
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Texas Belle Austin, TX
 MH Posts:7851


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| 07/13/2010 9:45 AM |
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Halo did her best showing when she was in season. Some folks tell the judge and some don't, but I always did as a courtesy. So, yes you can show when they are in season. BTW Halo did not come in for the first time until she was 20 months. After that she was on a 9 months cycle. As for points, yes you can get the WD points if you go BOW. For instance, if there aren't enough girls for points, but the boys have a major, if your girl wins BOW she gets the points and the major because she beat the boys. The boy would also get the same points and major too, so you are not taking points away from him. In another example if boys and girls in the classes have no points, but there are 2 Specials (doesn't matter if they are males, females, or a mix) and she get BOB, she would still get a point because she beat the 2 Specials. I actually almost got a major by taking BOB in a show with Halo. We ended up one dog short when we looked to see how many girls and Specials we beat and that was because the judge had withheld a ribbon in for one of the class girls. Not to complicate it even more, if you take BOB and go to the Groups and take a Group 1, you would get the points from the highest point dog shown in the Sporting Group that day. So you could conceivably have a single point from getting BOB with shorthairs, but go on and win Group and because the Goldens had a 5 point major, you would then be awarded the 5 point major because you beat the Golden. Now are you totally confused? LOL |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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Texas Belle Austin, TX
 MH Posts:7851


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| 07/13/2010 9:48 AM |
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| And to Christine's point about have to prove you won, be sure you get a picture and keep your ribbon as those can and have been used as proof. |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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singltrak Las Cruces, NM
 MH Posts:1149


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| 07/14/2010 8:17 AM |
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Geesh, ladies...reading your explanations would confuse even Jack Onofrio! LOL! (JK, but it really is like speaking another language until you get in the swing of things). That said, to go back to your original post, your friend is incorrect in saying that the single dog entry at the show you recently attended got a point for going Best of Winners (BOW). One dog will not make a point, period...so that dog HAD to go BOW for a point. I guess there was more than one bitch entered, correct? So, the bitch had her point for going Winners' Bitch, but the dog would not have gotten anything other than a pretty blue and a lovely purple ribbon had he not also walked out with the blue/white BOW ribbon. Its not necessarily a given that the judge will share the points, though after 20 years stewarding you'd be surprised at how many people get crazy and demand that (I) make the judge change their marking! Sure, you can show in conformation with your bitch in season...just be considerate of your fellow exhibitors and your judge, as well as keeping an eye on your own girl....I've known of more than one breeding that occurred at ringside... Good luck! Your girl is looking really good!!! Phyllis and the Singltrak Furtribe |
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Look to the Past, Breed for the Future |
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wems2371 Eastern Iowa
 MH Posts:169


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| 07/15/2010 9:55 AM |
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Thanks so much for the advice. Ironically enough, I just noticed Brandi looked swollen last night and was dripping a little. Next show isn't until 8/6, so hopefully she'll be all finished by then. Fortunately I don't have any male dogs here, otherwise I'd have to lock her in her crate and throw away the key. 
Thanks for the points explanantions. I have Onofrio's How To Figure Points brochure, but sometimes it doesn't sink in until I experience it.
Yes Phyllis, there were 3 bitches entered and just 1 dog. I got WB on the first day. I had forgotten there was a BOW. My first show weekend was a whirlwind, and at my 2nd show there were no specials, so I guess it was automatic who was BOW. So this time, when I went back into the ring, the male got BOW, and my friend was explaining to me about how judges sometimes do the point sharing thing. Not saying the male wasn't better, but he was explaining how things sometimes do happen.
I'm definitely still learning. My friend and fellow exhibitor pointed out, how I had allowed myself to be visually blocked in the line up. When she explained what the handler in front of me did, it made sense, as I knew something wasn't right with the picture. While in the ring, I was pretty confused as to why the handler in front of me, stopped so far behind the handler in front of them and so far out on the side of the mat...and left me stacking in a very awkward corner of the ring. I watched the same handler later stack their dog sideways across the mat, whether intentional or not, hiding the dog behind them. Tricks to learn I guess. I don't want to use them against anyone, I just want to make sure they're not used against me and be more observant and less naive.
It was funny, as I was thinking I was starting to look pretty professional as a handler. Then on day 2, when they picked WB (not me), I forgot how it went and was half way out of the ring, forgetting about RWB. The judge called me back in and brought in the 3rd bitch (my friends), who had been in the WB's same class. So my friend explained why that happened, and that he was still in contention for RWB too, and it made perfect sense. But in the meantime, I gave away my totally amateur status! 
Thank goodness for ringside friends with more experience than me...and a husband who's willing to go along and give me advice...even though I sometimes don't take it so well.
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Countrysides Red Hot Roxi http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=1176 Snips Bring It On Brandi http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=1711 |
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