Klynn7
Blaine, MN
MH
Posts:84
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| 04/26/2010 7:25 AM |
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Any suggestions on training not to bark when crated? We've only had Stella a week now and she obviously was not crate trained at all by her previous owner. We think she's about 13 weeks old now. Our other pup Randi was already partially crate trained from the breeder so we had no problems with her. Plus, she just isn't a barker, even when she's playing. Stella on the other hand is when she plays sometimes and barks ALL THE TIME for at least the 1st 15 minutes she's in her crate. Day or night. At night we've been covering her crate up with a sheet so she can't see us. I have her next to my side of the bed but that just hasn't been working. During the day she's in the crate next to Randi but still barks.
Our trainer told us to get a bark collar, so we did. It's helping but not a whole lot. Any other ideas? I know it's not stress from the crate. You can tell it's a "look at me" bark. We would like to be able to have our windows open so we don't have to have the AC on (it's only 45 at night) but don't want to disturb our neighbors. |
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-Korbey
Randi
Stella
"We long for an affection altogether ignorant of our faults. Heaven has accorded this to us in the uncritical canine attachment." -George Eliot
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4474
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| 04/26/2010 8:00 AM |
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Please remove the bark collar from a 13 week old pup. Shame on that trainer - I would not use them anymore.
It takes at least a month for them to accept to being in the crate. Then there are so many factors to consider. If the pupis just protesting - tough. They'll have to learn to deal with it - but we must be fair. A dog in a kennel for 12 hours at night will not want to be back in there after a morning run and potty. We need to consider their mental and emotional state.
Yesterday, our 2 year old was in the kennel a lot during the day, last night we closed our bedroom door and let him sleep out of the kennel.
They all learn if the approach is correct. What seems like a hell of a long period is really only a month or so.
My guys will still carry on if they believe they are in the crate unfairly. And they are usually correct about it.
One thing I do is I crate train during the day with the door open. I don't push my luck tho. I learn to read the pup and know what there limit is and then stretch that.
Another really good tactic is to put them in and leave- don't speak to them. Let them scream their head off with no one home. Do this every day for about 1 hour.
Good luck and hang in there - (a week is way to early to start complaining.)
You'll make it thru.
Francine
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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Klynn7
Blaine, MN
MH
Posts:84
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| 04/26/2010 9:28 AM |
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I'm not trying to complain at all. I was just wondering if there were any tips to help the process along. I've never had to crate train before so I want to make sure I'm doing it in a positive way to avoid any future problems. We do stick her in there and encourage her to go in on her own with a treat. She goes in, but doesn't want to be in there once she realizes what's going on and starts to bark at us even if we ignore her. This usually lasts about 15 minutes.
So a month is the typical adjustment time? We are fine putting up with it for a while to let her adjust. I just wasn't sure how long was a typical adjustment time and want to make sure that we make any changes needed to help her adjust. |
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-Korbey
Randi
Stella
"We long for an affection altogether ignorant of our faults. Heaven has accorded this to us in the uncritical canine attachment." -George Eliot
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Texas Belle
Austin, TX
MH
Posts:7921
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| 04/26/2010 9:54 AM |
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She just needs time to learn that barking gets her no where. At night I cover my crates and also turn the radio on. It helps as they are not responding to every little sound. During the day when I crate the crate is in a quiet room and not in the middle of all the family activity. It is really hard for a puppy to not react to all the activity around him even if covered (he can still hear everyone).
I agree, take the bark collar off. He is way to young for the collar. However, you can just bitter apple and spray it in her mouth when she barks inappropriately. I used that with Halo and after a couple of sprays all I had to do was hold up the bottle. Bitter apple does not hurt them, but does taste nasty. |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
   
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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MelB
MH
Posts:1217
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| 04/26/2010 11:09 AM |
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| does she have toys in her crate to play with to keep her busy? I used a kong with treats for Xara which worked very well at occupying her and teaching her the crate was a great place to be. She also still has rope toys, stuffed toys and a few good strong chew toys in there with her while I'm at work |
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Klynn7
Blaine, MN
MH
Posts:84
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| 04/26/2010 11:19 AM |
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I haven't put any toys in with her yet. I use to do that with Randi. I'll go get her a kong tonight. I have one now but it's an XL heavy duity one because Randi managed to destroy the large one we had (she is a rediculous chewer!!).
I also just moved one of the crates downstairs today so I can start feeding her in it since I've read that a few places. Maybe I'll take that time to throw some toys in there for her. Randi always takes them from her anyway so maybe she'll like it.
Thanks for your thoughts guys. I'm not sure what to think about the bark collar. Our trainer is really good and I can't believe he would suggest it if it wasn't a good idea but I didn't really like the idea when he told us about it. It hasn't seemed to bother her or spook her when we've had it on her and she doesn't try and get away when I put it on. BUT I would rather not use it if we don't need to so I'll stop using it and see if some of your suggestions help. |
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-Korbey
Randi
Stella
"We long for an affection altogether ignorant of our faults. Heaven has accorded this to us in the uncritical canine attachment." -George Eliot
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4474
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| 04/26/2010 2:36 PM |
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Why do you want to feed her in the kennel?
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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Willowglen
Fort Collins, CO
MH
Posts:216
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| 04/26/2010 4:24 PM |
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| What kind of crate is she in? One of our Weim puppy buyers was having a really hard time crate training. They had him in a wire crate that was covered with a blanket and he whined every night. My dad had started crate training him in a Vari kennel. She had a Vari kennel in her car and switched the crates - that night he went right to sleep without the usual whining. With some dogs they don't care what kind of crate they are in, but maybe she would feel more secure in a different kind. Just a thought and good luck. |
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Christine
Willow Glen GSPs & Weimaraners
www.willowglengsp.com
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Willowglen
Fort Collins, CO
MH
Posts:216
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| 04/26/2010 4:28 PM |
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| One other thing I would try with crate training is putting a T-shirt that has your smell on it in with her. This may help with the times when you have to leave her. I also usually leave the TV or radio on when I am gone - helps to drown out the noises that may trigger barking and help to soothe them. I also generally put a kong stuffed with peanut butter in their crates. My guys now know to run upstairs to their crates when they see me filling their kongs. It's the only time they get them. |
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Christine
Willow Glen GSPs & Weimaraners
www.willowglengsp.com
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Klynn7
Blaine, MN
MH
Posts:84
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| 04/26/2010 4:49 PM |
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Pixie- It was suggested to me by a couple people to try feeding her in her crate to associate it with good things that she likes. Well I tried it when I got home today and she ate a mouth full, freaked out, spilled her food everywhere, then ate a little more. The one thing it did help with is she and Randi couldn't get each others food.
I also gave the Kong thing a try. I just put her in it for a few minutes with the Kong to see if she would be calm for a few minutes. Well Randi knew what was going on and wanted IN the crate to get it while Stella was trying to get OUT. Work in progress. I'll put one in with her tomorrow while I'm at work.
Christine- We have her in a wire crate with blankets. We cover the crate at night and she'll eventually settle down and go to sleep after barking for 10-15 minutes. When we went to friends on Saturday the drive was about 40 minutes. We had her in a soft crate and she didn't bark at all. Maybe that's the trick.
I'll also try putting on the radio tomorrow. |
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-Korbey
Randi
Stella
"We long for an affection altogether ignorant of our faults. Heaven has accorded this to us in the uncritical canine attachment." -George Eliot
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Willowglen
Fort Collins, CO
MH
Posts:216
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| 04/26/2010 5:28 PM |
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| I definitely would not leave her alone in a soft crate (don't know if that's what you were thinking of trying). I have seen way too many dogs escape and/or destroy them. Our Weim has destroyed at least 3! One time she was at a breeder friend's house and Kathi had put her in a soft crate to sleep for the night. Kathi awoke at 2am to her barking and when she went to investigate, discovered that she had chewed her way out of the soft crate, went through the screen on the window, and was at the front door barking to be let back in. Needless to say, she never slept in a soft crate again! I don't even like leaving mine in soft crates at dog shows, except ringside when I can ask someone to keep an eye on them. Otherwise they are always in a wire or hard-sided crate. |
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Christine
Willow Glen GSPs & Weimaraners
www.willowglengsp.com
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Klynn7
Blaine, MN
MH
Posts:84
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| 04/26/2010 7:45 PM |
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Oh I would never leave either of them in a soft crate! I only use it in the car. I actually usually have a wire one in the car but now that I'm going to need to fit two of them, the soft crates fit really well side by side in the back of my SUV. I only mentioned it because she didn't bark when she was in it in the car so maybe she likes it a little more private as opposed to the wire ones.
I have some new tricks to try tonight and tomorrow. Hopefully they'll work! |
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-Korbey
Randi
Stella
"We long for an affection altogether ignorant of our faults. Heaven has accorded this to us in the uncritical canine attachment." -George Eliot
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Willowglen
Fort Collins, CO
MH
Posts:216
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| 04/26/2010 8:12 PM |
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I figured you wouldn't try it, but you know, better to be forewarned! Good luck tonight and keep us posted!
BTW, Stella is an awesome name! I have that on my short list for future puppies!!! I thought Stella and Luna would be a good combo... |
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Christine
Willow Glen GSPs & Weimaraners
www.willowglengsp.com
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Texas Belle
Austin, TX
MH
Posts:7921
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| 04/26/2010 9:55 PM |
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| I have a wide variety of crates, but in the house and on the road I use the soft sided crates for Ringo and Halo. Ringo has grown up with a soft sided crate and I have never had problems and if he wanted to he could shred it in a heart beat (he is a big boy weighing about 70 pounds). On the other hand, my oldest is terrified in any crate (I think she is claustrophobic) and has broken out of the plastic and even the heavy duty wire crates. So, the bottom line is if they want out they can get out of even a wire crate. That said, I would not leave her until I knew how she would do in a soft sided, but if she is happy in it, then she probably wouldn't have a problem with you leaving her. |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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Splat
Illinois (Northern)
MH
Posts:3154
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| 04/29/2010 6:36 AM |
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I agree she is too young for a bark collar...I have also heard bad things about bark collars for any age dog, like the dogs just learn to overly bark till to run the battery out fast and goofy stuff like that. My dogs bark like crazy when they play with each other, we have been working on this. When they bark I go up grab their snout and say quiet. It has actually been going good, sometimes they get too excited and they start their barking, but now most of the time I can just say quiet. I might try to bitter apple spray I have some on hand!
I agree with filling a kong toy with peanut butter or a knuckle bone with peanut butter but if you do it for one dog you have to do it for the other, fair is fair, LOL!
When I had Blitz as a puppy he slept in his kennel in our room and we never had issues, he loves his kennel. With Donner since Blitz had graduated from sleeping in his kennel to in bed with my oldest son and my youngest son wanted a bed buddy Donner went straight to sleeping in bed with my youngest. However for day time when left alone their kennels are side by side (wire kennels, so they can see each other really good). I have always filled a toy with peanut butter and Donner does really good.
I use soft side pop up kennels in the truck and when we camp and my dogs do fine with them, but I wouldn't leave them too long until you know if they will rip them apart...which you said you already knew to watch for.
15 minutes really isn't a long time for them to bark in the kennel. The key is you only let them out when they are quiet, that is a big thing to remember. I never let my dogs out as soon as I get home either, they now know to be quiet when I get home and after a couple minutes I let them out...usually I bring in all my groceries or whatever and then let them out.
I have heard of people feeding dogs in the kennel so they associate it with good things, but I never had to do that. Actually I think you are better not to cuz since you have another dog it is good to let them see each other eat and stuff and it is good for you to pet them while they eat and stuff cuz it will help not form food aggression. Feeding in the cage might (that's a big might cuz it might not happen) teach the dog that it needs to eat away from other dogs and people ect...I think by giving treats and the peanut butter stuffed toy that is a good way to associate good things to the kennel. |
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Klynn7
Blaine, MN
MH
Posts:84
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| 04/29/2010 7:34 AM |
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Okay.....UPDATE!
So the bark collar is gone. We brought it back to the store and haven't used it again since I posted this.
Night time is just fine now as long as we cover her crate with a sheet. If it's not covered she barks. Covered she just does her cute little puppy whimper for a while and settles down.
During the day I have her uncovered (I want to try and get her use to not being covered) next to Randi. She barks when I get home. I do what I need to do and go up stairs to try and wait for her to stop so I can let her out. She doesn't stop until she sees me (I've let her go a few times but she's gone up to 30 minutes) then she stops barking but is still pretty wound up. I let Randi out and make Stella calm down and sit before she gets to come out too.
Over all it's better, but not perfect. There is light at the end of the tunnel! I really don't care how much she barks her little head off when we aren't home it was just the night I was worried about. Hopefully she'll get better. I don't want to have to worry about her barking all the time if there are people in the house or if we're somewhere else and we need to throw her in there.
Thanks for all the tips! I ordered another Kong so they BOTH can have one. The best part is when I tell Stella to "Kennel" and Randi tries to squeeze into the very small space in Stella's crate so she can get the treat!
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-Korbey
Randi
Stella
"We long for an affection altogether ignorant of our faults. Heaven has accorded this to us in the uncritical canine attachment." -George Eliot
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Splat
Illinois (Northern)
MH
Posts:3154
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| 04/29/2010 8:56 AM |
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| Good to hear you have chosen a game plan and it is in action and you are already getting results! |
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Texas Belle
Austin, TX
MH
Posts:7921
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| 04/29/2010 10:07 AM |
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| Glad things are improving and working for you. |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4474
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| 04/29/2010 11:20 AM |
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It's matter of time and adjustment.
Spending nights and days in the kennel is a difficult adjustment,esp for a puppy full of energy.
Good to hear she is adjusting.
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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Willowglen
Fort Collins, CO
MH
Posts:216
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| 04/29/2010 4:16 PM |
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| Glad things are going well. With puppies it just takes a lot of time and patience. |
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Christine
Willow Glen GSPs & Weimaraners
www.willowglengsp.com
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