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Phillyo118 UK
 MH Posts:663


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| 03/11/2010 2:36 AM |
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Bentley is doing great with his training, yet I have some questions...perhaps more for reassurance than anything else as this is my first dog.
1) When out walking, he will start to pull a little bit on the lead. It's not bad, not great tugging or pulling me off my feet but the leash is pretty taught. I say "heel" and he'll slow down a little bit...then go back to the pull. I'll give a little tug and repeat the heel and he'll walk next to me for a bit. I praise him and after a few steps I reward him with a little bit of cheese (he loves cheese!). As soon as he gets the cheese he thinks that's a release command and tries to pull away again. It's the same when we sit before crossing the road. Sit's happily, cheese and away he wants to go. I'm fairly certain its something i've done wrong somewhere??
2) Recall. On our own he's really good, will come when called and gets a treat, will come to the whistle too. If there's any distractions though he will rarely come to me. That's normal for a 5month old puppy right?
3) Stays. Getting him to sit stay is so hard. He always wants to lie down because he thinks that's what I want. I've not even tried to do it standing yet as i know he'll just want to sit and lie down. I'm thinking perhaps a check cord and starting on a "woah" command in my back garden?
4) Food guarding. For some reason he's started to growl a bit when I approach him while he's eating. It's strange because if i put the food in the bowl and stay next to him stroking him all the time he's happy. If I walk away for a min, then come back towards him and try to stroke him he'll growl. I've started to do it then when he growls a bit i'll drop a bit more food or a treat into his bowl, letting him know that i'm not going to take his food from him. I THINK he's getting better but some feedback would be nice?
5) Last one for now, I promise!! I WANT ANOTHER GSP!!! ok sorry, i'd like another dog in a while for him to have a buddy to play with. When would be a good time/age to look at getting one and is having two twice as hard as one, or just kinda the same?
Thank you for any answers you can provide. |
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"From the dog's point of view, his master is an elongated and abnormally cunning dog."
"My goal in life is to be as good of a person my dog already thinks I am." |
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Splat Illinois (Northern)
 MH Posts:2434


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| 03/11/2010 5:50 AM |
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As far as another puppy, I think it is personal choice as to when to get another....My oldest GSP is 8 months and we just got him a buddy (11 weeks).... I would have gotten 2 right away except we lived with my parents and with the 1 we broke the no more dog rule....now we have our own house so we got the second one right away! |
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 http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=2553 http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=2554 |
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Gunnar
 MH Posts:288


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| 03/11/2010 7:04 AM |
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I read an interesting article that basically stated you need to give a command a few thousand times before it becomes reliable. That makes sense to me, so be paitent and just keep working. Heel takes work and the dog needs to learn to " give to the lead" or leash if you will. It takes time and practice. Dogs can be willful or easily distracted. Come/here recall is just like the above. Also if my guy takes his time I do one of two things I go get him and pick him up (70 pound dog) or I reel him in with a check cord. I also never reprimand him whenhe fails to come doing so I believe will only make him hesitant. Would you go to someone who's going to yell at you? They remember that. For stay, some guys use anchors, a hat keys etc... Theory being that as long as the item is there the dog stays till you retrieve the item and release the dog. That's one idea. I just put the dog back in place and do it again and again and again.... Also a school of thought is never call your dog from a stay. Go and release him, so he knows you are coming back and not to move till you do so. I use a whistle in conjunction with most commands, Come is the biggest, Problem with whistles is if you do hunt tests or field trials and your whistle sounds like all the other whistles it can confuse the dog. Get a unique whistle. Food guarding, not sure about this one but when my dog gets a little fiesty I pin him. I take him off his feet lay him on his side and put my hands on his front shoulders and rear legs till he stops struggling and shows me his belly ( submission ) that usually takes the aggression out of him. Another puppy. I'm picking one up in June, I waited till my guy had a hunting season under his belt and I was comfortable with his level of basic training. Now he's ready to move to more advanced stuff. So I'm comfortable taking another going on basic and more advanced with my other. So really it's all about your comfort level. I understand how people fall in love with these dogs and I see folks all the time with 3 and 4 of em. I'll share something with you. I don't believe any dog is ever 100% trained. Dogs can be and are very well trained but it takes constant reinforcement and work. A commitment on my part to work with the dog on something every day no matter how small or how well he has mastered the task. So even if a dog goes into phase 2 of training I still revisit phase one frequently. It takes work time and patience. That's how I approach my dogs. It's not for everyone and not everyone will agree with it but that's my view on training and living with dogs. |
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Texas Belle Austin, TX
 MH Posts:6744


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| 03/11/2010 8:07 AM |
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So, here are my thoughts on your questions:
1) The cheese treat has become the release in the dogs mind. For example, when you are at the corner you have the dog sit, give cheese, then start walking. I would not treat in that situation since the dog already knows the drill. I would have him sit, stay, wait various amounts of time, then say heel and walk. Once you both start heeling then tell him good dog (or you could release him then and give him a treat). He did the sequence right so he gets the verbal good dog letting him know he did good. Same thing with the heeling. Quit giving him the treats until he does something really good, like heel for several consecutive minutes, then release him with your release word and then treat him if you want too. He is giving you the behavior that he thinks will get the treat. Once he has the treat in his mind he is done and can go about business. Just be aware of when you are treating and think about what the dog is thinking.
2) Recall. On our own he's really good, will come when called and gets a treat, will come to the whistle too. If there's any distractions though he will rarely come to me. That's normal for a 5month old puppy right?
Pretty much. What this tells me is he is not ready to be off a check cord and needs allot more reps with the recall where you can enforce the command. Once his is reliable in a controlled environment then add a distraction. Once reliable there up the ante a little more. If he fails at any point go back a step and work some more. The recall is IMHO the hardest to get to reliable and takes thousands of training recalls in all kinds of different environments. Be sure you never get angry or upset with him if you call and he takes some time coming. If he comes to you even if he ran you around the neighborhood first, you have to praise him because he came. He will not associated the correction with the running around, but he will think you are mad because he came. Dogs think in the moment.
3) Stays. Again he doesn't know what you want. Right now a leash is what you need and a quiet place. Put him in the sit and stand next to him. Wait a few seconds and release. Praise. Build on the time that way. Once you can do that for say 30 seconds or so, then sit/stay and you step in front of him toe to toe. Again, build the time. Repeat moving gradually out to the end of the leash. Once at the end of the leash and a full minute you can start working off leash and getting further away. Stay without distractions for now. If he lays down step in and pull straight up ont he leash and tell him to sit and stay again. Be sure you praise too and be patient. Eventually you will do this in various locations and add distractions, but make sure your dog is solid before you move to the next level.
4) Food guarding. For some reason he's started to growl a bit when I approach him while he's eating. It's strange because if i put the food in the bowl and stay next to him stroking him all the time he's happy. If I walk away for a min, then come back towards him and try to stroke him he'll growl. I've started to do it then when he growls a bit i'll drop a bit more food or a treat into his bowl, letting him know that i'm not going to take his food from him. I THINK he's getting better but some feedback would be nice?
That is the right approach for food guarding. He needs to know when you hand is moving toward him and the food, good things will happen. I would use something special and good when you add to his food. I think I would drop the stroking for now and just move my hand in closer and gradually and if you get no growl add the treat.
As for the puppy roll from the other poster, that is an old method and most behaniorist today agree that it can and is often dangerous and has caused more bites than it fixes problems. As will all things though, there can be situations where it can be used, but I would not use it with a GSP who is food guarding. A good book for suggestions for dealing with behaviors like food aggression is "Aggression in Dogs" by Brenda Aloff.
5) Last one for now, I promise!! I WANT ANOTHER GSP!!! ok sorry, i'd like another dog in a while for him to have a buddy to play with. When would be a good time/age to look at getting one and is having two twice as hard as one, or just kinda the same?
GSPs IMHO are happiest when they are around other GSPs. So, if you want another one now is as good a time as any as long as you are ready. As for work, it really isn't that much more. I compete with all three of mine in conformation, obedience, agility, etc. so it up'ed the amount of training time for me. It will also in your case double you food, boarding, vet bills, etc. On the other side though, your dog will have a playmate and they can entertain each other. Since I work from home it is really nice because the dogs go out in the yard in the morning and stay out and do stuff together until afternoon and they do not bother me while I am working. On bad weather days they are in with me and can be a pain if there are too many bad weather days in a row. As for the dogs getting along, I have three (2 females and a male) and have had no problems. My first two were females and I added the male several years later. I will be adding another female in about 6 months or so since I am planning on breeding my middle girl and keeping a puppy.
  
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
  
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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Phillyo118 UK
 MH Posts:663


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| 03/11/2010 8:16 AM |
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Thank you for all your responses guys, nice to know i'm doing a few things right and also nice to know where i'm going wrong. I'm definitely going to look into one of those check cords. Seem's like a very sensible thing, just a bit worried that he wont like the lack of freedom that he's been used to in the past. Oh well, he'll have to GET used to it, or prove he's willing to listen Thanks again. |
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"From the dog's point of view, his master is an elongated and abnormally cunning dog."
"My goal in life is to be as good of a person my dog already thinks I am." |
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Gunnar
 MH Posts:288


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| 03/11/2010 8:28 AM |
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Belle we all differ in our approaches, that's what makes this place so great. The free exchange of ideas and the ability to sort out what works for each of us.The current school does not agree with pinning, but I'm not a fan of treat training and there is a whole other school of thought on that. Even though dogs are very food motivated. If my dog growls at me first I look at the situation, is he having a bad day grumpy in pain etc... if he's just being aggressive then he gets pinned. Dogs do this to each other all the time they roll each other etc... IMO the dog needs to do what I want it to when I want him to do it, not because he has a treat coming but because it is his job or duty to do so. And he also needs to know growling at the boss is completely unacceptable. I enjoyed your post and your perspective but wanted to give you my thoughts on why I do what I do  |
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Splat Illinois (Northern)
 MH Posts:2434


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| 03/11/2010 12:35 PM |
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| I think I kind of combine the 2 methods...the pin and treat...I give treats when rewarding behavior but they don't get a treat every time they come in and sit....then I do when messing around with them starting at puppies roll them onto their backs and have them stay still while I hold them there...I have had my kids do this too with the puppies, however we just do it out of the blue and not when they have shown aggression... |
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 http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=2553 http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=2554 |
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Texas Belle Austin, TX
 MH Posts:6744


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| 03/11/2010 5:08 PM |
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Splat - I play with mine and roll them on their back and scratch there tummies too. That is different than the alpha roll. I am not passing judgement on the alpha roll method, only stating that when the alpha roll is used on a dog that is showing agression it can back fire and result in dog bites. The current thinking by animal behaviorists is that you don't need to use for most behaviors and there are other methods that are more effective and safer. If you are going to use it, then you need to really know what you are doing and the dog you are doing it on. On another note, my dogs usually offer submission to me by rolling onto their backs on their own. I have also notiiced that shorthairs love to lie on their backs when they are relaxed. It is actually pretty funny when they do it. Halo is so comfortable at dog shows now that she will roll onto her back and look goofy while we are waiting to go into the ring. It is hilarious to watch and most people end up laughing at her which just makes her worse. Anyway, if someone wants to use the alpha roll just be sure you understand what you are doing and what the possible results can be. |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
  
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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dieterthegsp Cape Breton, NS, Canada
 MH Posts:559


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| 03/11/2010 6:00 PM |
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| haha dieter loves laying on his back in the spread eagle position. |
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Properly trained, a man can be dog's best friend.
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Phillyo118 UK
 MH Posts:663


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| 03/12/2010 12:38 AM |
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| Bentley was fast asleep at my feet last night laying on his back, legs spread eagle and snoring away to himself. Very cute, very funny! |
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"From the dog's point of view, his master is an elongated and abnormally cunning dog."
"My goal in life is to be as good of a person my dog already thinks I am." |
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