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Subject: food and weight
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NewtonUser is Offline
Alberta - North of Edmonton
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Posts:35


11/24/2007 1:01 PM  

I am feeding Lady a good quality puppy food (Acana) and she eats it really well but while she is not exactly thin she doesn't have any spare weight either. With colder weather coming I would like to put a little bit more weight on her. I am feeding over the reccomended amount for her weight by about a cup a day. Should I be adding something? Does anybody else supplement their boughten dog food with anything else and if so what and why?

Just wondering, I don't think I have to worry about her gaining too much weight as she is always on the go.

Thanks

Newton

Lucky7User is Offline
Long Island, NY
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11/24/2007 5:19 PM  
I think this is the most common "problem" or concern of GSP owners. Our GSP, Seven is 4 years old and stays around 65-70 pounds. In the summer he is really skinny and the vet has actually told me to feed him more, but no matter how much he eats, his max weight is 70 lbs, which he stays at for a few days and then drops back down again. In the winter he stays around 68lbs and we haven't had any trouble with the cold...we do however live on Long Island no where near you. I would suggest a jacket if your that concerned...K9 TopCoat makes a nice light-weight warm jacket that we recently purchased for Seven due to Dock Jumping in the winter. He hates it, but it keeps him really warm when he's wet. ;-)


Kim & Rob

Seven GSP 6.5 years
Lucas human 3 years
Hanz GSP 1 Year

http://www.freewebs.com/jumpngspseven



MegCUser is Offline
Ellensburg, WA
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11/24/2007 6:30 PM  

If you look back through the archives, you'll see I've weighed in on this a number of times. I use my GSPs for mushing so keeping weight on them is something I'm pretty darn familiar with. To summarize:

  • Make sure you're feeding a good 30/20 kibble to begin with. Less protien/fat in that core ration will be tough to overcome, as a dog's metabolism is designed to use both as it's ideal fuel.
  • Keep the dog locked up in a warm spot at night so theyr'e not just fretting or shivering calories off (ideal is a crate in a heated room IMO). If the dog is out in a kennel during the day make sure they've got a tight box loaded up with straw. Jackets are an excellent idea IF the dog won't chew them up.
  • Split feeding into 2 meals (plus whatever snacks you want to throw in of course) and offer the most calories at night.
  • Once my dogs require over 3c of food a day I start supplimenting with meat, and my personal rule of thumb is not to feed more than 4c/day of kibble altogether. Joe Runyan's book about distance mushing had some insights about a pound of dog food a day being the point of diminishing returns if anyone cares to read it. I've also supplimented with lard, eggs, and Annamaet Impact. Any of it will work if you start slowly. If you just throw a huge wad of greasy meat to a dog that hasn't had it before, it can get sick enough to die- so be patient! The Impact is probably the most forgiving stuff I've used as far as that goes.

RIght now the most popular kibble brands in mushing circles seem to be Eagle, Red Paw, Cariboo Creek Gold, and Blackwood. I have fed Eukanuba, Kasco, and NutraNuggets (by Diamond) in the past. We switched to Eagle Power last year and I've never been so impressed with a kibble.... it's not cheap, but I'm not having nearly the problems keeping weight on that I have in years past and the dog's coats are looking fantastic.


Megan
+ Dulcie (Lehmschlog's The Right Spot) + Rogan (Lehmschlog's BR Rogan) + Anya (Lehmschlog's Anya O Conchobar)
Intro to harness sport/mushing- start here!
GSPJustinUser is Offline
Fremont, CA
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11/27/2007 8:47 PM  

How old is Lady? I hear of a lot of people worrying about the weight on there puppies, but they just grow so fast.

The vets want to see this perfect weight and perfect look thats this and that. Fact of the matter is our dogs work. One lady at my 'old' vet was trying to compare my dog to a Rotweiler. LOL. If you can feel but not seen the ribs your fine. If you can see a couple ribs your fine (2 to 3 or the back ribs). You shouldn't see the hip bone.


Meg has pretty much summed it up. The 30/20 ratio is optional, all dogs are different, and so are there exercise plans. Most of the time a standard 26/16 does ok. Which is what my dog eats. I had him on a 30/20 feed at it was to rich for him.


Justin Anzelc
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Snowcreek Beaudacious Rock JH
Shorthairs And More
pixie beeUser is Offline

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11/28/2007 7:21 AM  

Newton,
can you us some more info? How tall is she and what is her weight?
And 1 personal question - does she poop a lot?

Lucky7, 65-70lbs is kinda a lot. How tall is your dog?

Haiko, at 26" is 68lbs.

Substituting with human food is not a bad idea to add weight.

Francine



"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
MegCUser is Offline
Ellensburg, WA
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Posts:989


11/28/2007 9:04 AM  
Posted By GSPJustin on 11/27/2007 8:47 PM

...The 30/20 ratio is optional, all dogs are different, and so are there exercise plans. Most of the time a standard 26/16 does ok. Which is what my dog eats. I had him on a 30/20 feed at it was to rich for him.

This is true. I post about the 30/20 because I've seen people posting that they're having a hard time putting weight on a dog only to later say they're feeding something like your 26/16. IMO there's no point in long-term supplimentation for weight issues if the kibble we're starting with isn't sufficiently concentrated, no matter how fancy the bag's packaging or marketing.

And yeah, double check the standards. I've found my dogs run best when their back 2-3 ribs are clearly visible. Below is Rogan (standing with his back kinda arched up probably hoping I'll scratch his butt) in what I consider just about perfect shape towards the end of last season... you can see that he's trim, but also carrying lots of muscle and his coat is really nice.


Megan
+ Dulcie (Lehmschlog's The Right Spot) + Rogan (Lehmschlog's BR Rogan) + Anya (Lehmschlog's Anya O Conchobar)
Intro to harness sport/mushing- start here!
NewtonUser is Offline
Alberta - North of Edmonton
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Posts:35


11/28/2007 10:10 AM  
Wow thanks for all the info.
Lady is 9 months old (almost 10) and wieghs 51 lbs (had to weigh her at the vets last week) she is tall and leggy . She has pretty good padding over her hips but her ribs stick out and all it takes is a day of running around for her hip bones to start to stick out. She grew outrageously fast in months 5-6 and now has stopped and has been at the same height and around 50 pounds for a couple of months, as she grew so fast I thought maybe she had to catch up.
I make sure she is dewormed every 4 months as she eats mice like a dynamo.
Her coat is really nice and thick and shiny, she came with me to walk my son to the bus this morning at -25degrees C (-13 F) and was happy as a clam, except her toes got cold. I was mostly concerned with her weight as she has been sleeping outside, in an insulated dog house, I didn't want her to be shivering or get frost bite. We've decided to put her in a cage kennel in our heated garage for the winter. or at least while the temp in is the dumper like it is supposed to be over the next week...of course here that could drag out til January.
I checked the dog food and it's ratio is 29/17, so that should be a good base.
I have also introduced a bit (like 1/2 cup) of liver to her diet over the last few days and she thinks its nummy.
Thanks for all the info, I am new to this dog thing, we always had dogs but they just seemed to raise themselves on the farm, ate with the cows and drank milk or whatever.
Newton
everbellUser is Offline
Kanata, ON
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11/28/2007 10:26 AM  
You could also try some nice plain yogurt. Bo just loves it. I get fat free cuz we share it, but you could get a higher fat one to help pack on some weight, or some regular cheese. Soembody also mentioned to me over the weekend that their pointers LOVE tortellini. The only thing that concerns me about organ meats, especially liver, is that is where all the impurities (growth hormones, pesticides, etc.) would be filtered out of the cow ...

Joce and Rich
Bogart and Shiraz (GSPs)
Roxane (RIP: 1995-2009) and Tiger Lily (Cats)
The Everbell Adventures
everbellUser is Offline
Kanata, ON
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Posts:3166


11/28/2007 10:32 AM  
One more thing ... Bo is almost 9 months too. Previously on this board people have mentioned that between 9 and 12 months the pointers seem to look real scrawny. You can probably see up to Bo's 5th rib right now ... but the boy is still gaining muscle, eating like crazy, has tons of energy and doesn't seem bothered by the cold (-14 C here last night). I'm not worrying about his weight unless one of those factors changes.

Joce and Rich
Bogart and Shiraz (GSPs)
Roxane (RIP: 1995-2009) and Tiger Lily (Cats)
The Everbell Adventures
NewtonUser is Offline
Alberta - North of Edmonton
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JH
Posts:35


11/28/2007 10:41 AM  
Thanks everbell, maybe she just in that gangly teenage stage!!
by the way, the liver is deer, not cow, I know what you mean by beef liver, scary stuff there.
I know she would love cheese all the time, and I'll try her with yogurt or cottage cheese. Her favourite treat is apples but they aren't going to help her gain weight!
I am trying to post a picture of my gal but we are on dial up and I just can't seem to get it to go.
Is Bo your avatar, he's a cuty. I just love the GSP face.
everbellUser is Offline
Kanata, ON
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Posts:3166


11/28/2007 11:28 AM  
Yup, that's my boy! Bo loves apples too, and carrots, and peanut butter, and well, anything else he can lick out of the dinner dishes in the sink. He seems to really love lasagna too (à la Garfield :) Last time we had Bo weighed he was 50 pounds (6 months), but he has done A LOT of growing since then. Both dad and mom were on the larger side of the breed, so we expect him to top out around 70. That doesn't stop him from trying to crawl in my lap to cuddle this a.m.

Joce and Rich
Bogart and Shiraz (GSPs)
Roxane (RIP: 1995-2009) and Tiger Lily (Cats)
The Everbell Adventures
Pointer FanUser is Offline
Westminster, Colorado
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Posts:954


11/28/2007 12:19 PM  
I didn't realize a shorthaired dog could stay outside at night in freezing temps. Our dogs have always been spoiled inside dogs. Molly thinks that anything less than a big round dog pillow next to the heat vent would be intolerable. Our other two pointers used to lay right on top of the heat vents. We called them our little brown heat sinks. Now that our sons our grown and gone the fur kid is really treated like a spoiled kid.
MegCUser is Offline
Ellensburg, WA
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Posts:989


11/28/2007 3:51 PM  

Shorthaired dogs can survive outside if they have a tight house with plenty of insulation (like straw), but they'll burn a lot of extra calories.

Beyond that, I prefer the extra bit of interaction we get having them at least crated in the house at night. I try to give a little extra pet-kiss-sweet word to each hound as I'm running them in and out to potty at least. Mine are NOT velcro dogs, but they obviously enjoy every moment they can get no matter how small.


Megan
+ Dulcie (Lehmschlog's The Right Spot) + Rogan (Lehmschlog's BR Rogan) + Anya (Lehmschlog's Anya O Conchobar)
Intro to harness sport/mushing- start here!
everbellUser is Offline
Kanata, ON
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Posts:3166


11/28/2007 5:47 PM  
Totally off topic, but Meg, which dog is in your avatar? I love that picture :)

Joce and Rich
Bogart and Shiraz (GSPs)
Roxane (RIP: 1995-2009) and Tiger Lily (Cats)
The Everbell Adventures
MegCUser is Offline
Ellensburg, WA
MH
MH
Posts:989


11/28/2007 6:40 PM  

That would be Rogan glaring at the camera, lol. I love that picture just because he's so obviously annoyed- most likely with the flash. :)

My all time favorite pic of him was the day after my 'three hour tour' of Blewitt pass. I  was skijoring with Dulcie and Rogan and the 3 maps I had didn't jive with the trails in the non-motorized area and we ended up doing a MUCH longer run than I would have voluntarily attempted. It was least 20 miles and a brutal quanity of elevation gain. The dogs pulled through admirably, and I was OK until I stepped out of the car at home and my foot immediately cramped up, darn near dropping me to the dirt in the carport...

I took this picture of Rogan jumping a broom handle in the living room the next day. With a little height to spare. :P Obviously the trip was much harder on me than it was on them, LOL!!!


Megan
+ Dulcie (Lehmschlog's The Right Spot) + Rogan (Lehmschlog's BR Rogan) + Anya (Lehmschlog's Anya O Conchobar)
Intro to harness sport/mushing- start here!
NewtonUser is Offline
Alberta - North of Edmonton
JH
JH
Posts:35


11/29/2007 12:59 PM  
I love that picture of Rogan!
Thanks for all the advice and just in case any one was concerned...Lady spent last night in the house. It was already -25C at 6 pm, Ry (my DH) and I discussed what to do with our baby and decided inside was the best place. She was so good, we let her out to wee at 11:00pm and she came in and curled up in her bed and slept till the alarm went off at 7:00am. She has never spent the night in the house before. With no releif in site for this cold snap and her heated dog bed still not here I think she will be here tonight as well. I know what you mean Meg about social time, she always spends as much time with us as possible, in summer she was outside with us all day and then would come watch tv with us at night before going to bed.
I love that she is such a cuddle buddy, and since she seems to be mostly my dog I enjoy her people oriented personality. She was gotten as a hunting companion for my husband and son but so far she is my girl.
Thanks for all the advice.
Newton
LegallyblondeUser is Offline
Otsego MI
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Posts:244


11/29/2007 2:40 PM  
I think it's totally normal for GSP's to be a bit skinny during adolescence. It took my GSP til he was two before he started to fill in nice and muscle up. I typically feed him Merrick and Wysong. Both are around 25% protein. I do a rotation of foods, with a basic kibble and different ad-ins. Sometimes some supplemental foods, that have higher protein, like Wysong Archetype (a non thermal process meat, organ meat, bone mix; looks like freeze dried meat, 50% protein, next best thing to raw) or Wysong Nurture, a 40% protein kibble with shredded free range pheasant mixed in. These I do on days he's had a hard workout, or weekends of events. I also like the Merrick canned food, lots of good meat sources and veggies in them. Sometimes I mix in yogurt, like everbell said, and sometimes meats and veggies, raw egg, etc. I like to keep them on a rotation, and I think they are much healthier for it. I know, I know vets say to SLOWLY make any changes, but I don't believe in that. Think about it, if we ate the same meal, day in, day out; our digestive systems got used to it, and made a sudden change, it would probably upset us too. But, once I got my dogs used to a rotation, nothing upsets their systems. It's nice, b/c if we're out of town or something and run out of food, I can feed them something totally different and it doesn't bother them.

BTW, 65-70 pounds is perfectly acceptable! If you saw Seven, you wouldn't ask. He's one of the top dock jumpers in the country and you wouldn't find a fitter dog. He's about the same height as my Oskar, and solid muscle. Oskar is close to 27 inches and he fluctuates from about 62 to 70 pounds, and totally fit. In fact, alot of times during the year, when we get on a heavy dock jumping schedule, he gets ribby.

UWPCH CA GSJCH USUVCH Boogerman Loverboy Oskar TDI CGC
SHR UWP CH Abbe Lane's Prince of Darkness TAN NA-I RBIMBS
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