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TessaGA Georgia
 MH Posts:2387


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| 10/18/2009 7:17 PM |
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Tessa ran her first JH today. She didn't pass but we had so much fun!
After not much cooperation from her during training yesterday, I was sweating the "Trainability" score. The horses I thought we had down but today she started barking and growling at them prior to her run so that unsettled me a bit. Friends of mine told me that their dog's brace-mate had a big issue with the horses the day before.
I decided to walk along with the first brace to see how things worked and wow, those dogs were mighty close to the horses. The field was very overgrown, making it difficult to see the dogs at times. So I was getting a little more nervous, but still having fun...
Tessa was braced with Dexter, a 2-year old GSP who is really already at the SH level but is run through the JH anyway. He passed yesterday and today with pretty good scores.
So we walk down the trail on our way to the bird field. When we released the dogs they were off like two rockets. Within two minutes Tessa was sidetracked on the wrong trail and the judge asked me to call her back. I whistled and she came straight back at high speed, and ran right between the two horses, straight as an arrow, completely unphased. After that I felt so much better! She did eat an awful lot of horse shit though!
When we arrived at the bird field I just prayed for a point. I walked, she ran, and sometimes I ran too to keep up with what she was doing; she knew where birds had been, at that point the judge suggested to take her somewhere else, these were old bird sites, so I did, and Tessa came along without any fuss. Close to the end there was a semi point, I could hear the birds chirping in the briars, and she worked all around them, but never went on a convincing point. I thought she may have, and when the birds flushed, I fired my shot. Hey, at least I got to fire! Then the judge said "15 more seconds"... oh my...hunt 'em up Tessa ...taking her the direction the quail had flown but nope - time up.
Her score was 8 (hunting ability) 6 (bird finding ability) 4 (pointing) and 7 (trainability).
That was at 2 p.m. At 5 p.m. after the last brace, there was the free for all, and whoever was still there headed for the bird field. Not two minutes into it she pointed, and pointed, and pointed. Oh well!
I would have loved to bring some orange home tonight but I am actually okay with how it went, she was so much fun to watch, and they all said, the hunting ability was there and that's something you can't train into a dog. I don't know all the scores from today but I overheard a few other fails.
We have November 14/15 coming up next (on pigeons though), November 21/22 and December 4/5.
Here are some photos of today. The grounds (central Georgia) btw were absolutely stunning! Just beautiful.
Tessa' brace-mate Dexter:

The bird field:

Tessa holding a point, after the test:

Two pointers 

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To live without dogs would mean accepting a form of blindness. [Thomas McGuane]
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Texas Belle Austin, TX
 MH Posts:7855


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| 10/18/2009 8:32 PM |
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That is a very nice first outing for both you and Tessa, and those scores are not too bad either. The hunting score is great and you should be pleased with the trainability score too. As for the other two, well you can't score well on a point if you don't find a bird and lots of dogs don't find birds even when they have been doing it for a while. Allot of the bird finding has to do with the conditions, the dogs experience, and the the planters too. You now have a base line to work from and you probably need to spend some time getting Tessa on birds. And besides, as I said before FUN is the most important thing. I am glad Tessa was braced with a more mature dog. That is usually good for the inexperienced dogs. You guys will do much better the next time out as both of you have that first one under your belt, and I will guarantee you Tessa has already got a good grasp of the bird game now. We were talking about bird fields today at our hunt test. Where I compete we have a course, but no bird field. Birds are planted all along the course and there is really no out of bounds. I have never hunted with a bird field, but I don't think I am too fond of them for young inexperienced dogs. I like the young dogs to be able to find a bird quickly so they learn to get down to hunting. The guy that normally is our bird planter is great too. For the JH dogs he always plants a bird early in the course and then in places where birds would normally be found. He also will plant one in the last part of the course, which we started calling the "last chance bird." I am glad you took Tessa back out for the free for all and she found some birds. That will help her next time you guys go. The grounds look gorgeous where you guys compete. We had allot of cover and brush this weekend too and I often lost sight of Ringo. I tried to keep him in sight, but sometimes I couldn't. The judges though were pretty good about helping us keep track of the dogs. I don't worry so much about loosing him, but if he goes on point and I don't see it. He made sure today though that everybody saw his spectacular first point. Ringo works fields fast and covers allot of ground and he was in his normal fast hunt mode and was in a fairly tall grassy area. He had worked one side of the road and was move across in front of me working the wind and I knew he had picked up a scent as his tail was going ninety miles an hour, but he hadn't broken his stride at all when all of a sudden he stopped and spun and when he landed he was locked in a gorgeous point. He held that point too until I got there. I think he would have continued to hold it by the bird moved and he flushed. Turned out there were two birds and when they flew I capped my pistol. I was so mad at myself though as I hadn't brought my camera. Even the judges were talking about how intense his point had been. I am still kicking myself. Anyway, I am glad you guys had fun. I bet you are both tired tonight. I know Ringo and I are beat. Well, at least I am beat. ; ) |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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TessaGA Georgia
 MH Posts:2387


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| 10/19/2009 7:00 AM |
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I was exhausted last night, and sunburned too - 9 hours out in the open, it was great! No, there was no "path of prayers" I have heard about. When they called time up, we had to leash our dogs and walk them out of the bird field. No point would have been considered after that. And there were no birds on the walk to the field other than the potential flyaway or wild bird. They would have honored a point there. I had no problem with the walk to the field, it got both dogs into a good rhythm. Up in the bird field I made sure to stay to the left as the wind was blowing from the right. One handler hugged the right side of the field, so the dog couldn't pick up any bird scent as they were all to the left of him. He came out with a 0 on bird finding and pointing. At least Tessa found some. I should have tried to whoa her when she was on that shrub...didn't think of it. Now the problem is getting her on more birds - this has been the most challenging part for me as I don't have the set up for it in the city, so it involves buying birds, renting land, paying for hours. I learned about many options yesterday - great contacts! But all far away and with all the tests coming up and an 8-5 Mo-Fri office job and short days and other obligations it'll be tough. So right now I will just hit all the HTs and hunt the fields afterwards. Re Dexter, I think he actually trained with Brenda (snips) earlier this year. I was so glad Tessa was braced with him. The people at the event were super nice and oh so helpful. I also walked the back course of a SH brace which was also interesting. Unfortunately, you can't walk the bird field with SH/MH. The hardest thing this morning was to put her on a leash and walk her in the city - what a bore! Argh! Now she is at the vet being spayed  |
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To live without dogs would mean accepting a form of blindness. [Thomas McGuane]
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Texas Belle Austin, TX
 MH Posts:7855


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| 10/19/2009 8:17 AM |
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I am so glad you had fun. I know exactly how you feel. I had two days of hunt tests and it was gorgeous weather. A little on the warm side in the afternoon and we ran after lunch both days. The first day our brace mate was a no show and when that happens you get moved to the end and run with a bye dog. Sunday we just drew a late brace. Ringo wasn't too bothered by the heat. I wet him down good before we started and he stopped and got water in the barrels when he needed too. He was acclimated though as I kept him outside allot over the summer just so the heat wouldn't bother him as much. Ringo crashed the whole way home (about 2 hours), then played with his sisters as he hadn't seen them all weekend. Slept hard last night and was ready to play bird games again this morning. I told him it would have to be in his backyard today. Frankly, I needed to go back to work to rest too. I think if you run Tessa in all the hunt tests you can right now she will get the idea pretty quick. The shorthairs tend to pick it up very fast. I know you are also planning on leaving her with Brenda for a few weeks and after the hunt tests you will know where she needs work. I am going to try to go to a NAVDHA training day in a few weeks. This will be the first time they have had one on a weekend I have free. I am really looking forward to it. It is held at a very nice preserve that is about and hour from my house. I am planning on joining my GSP Clubs lease which is pretty inexpensive and it is where we have most of the HT. I am also thinking about joining the Preserve where NAVDHA has all their stuff as that would give me two places to train. The Preserve also has birds you can buy for training too which is nice. Now Ringo and I have to buckle down and start working on Senior Hunter. |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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TessaGA Georgia
 MH Posts:2387


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| 10/19/2009 9:41 AM |
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Look at us and how these dogs sucked us into this... Question: you said you wish you had your camera with you to record his point. Is that allowed during the test? I don't think NAVDHA does, at any rate it is frowned upon by the judges, as you are supposed to pay attention to your dog instead. I took over 100 photos yesterday, following several braces, and later on, after the event. |
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To live without dogs would mean accepting a form of blindness. [Thomas McGuane]
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Texas Belle Austin, TX
 MH Posts:7855


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| 10/19/2009 10:41 AM |
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| I haven't ever looked on the camera, but I suspect it would be frowned on in the AKC too which is why I didn't take my camera. Even though Ringo was finished and we were running for fun, we also had a bracemate that still need legs.Also, Ringo is still green and I wanted to have my undivided attention on him. It's just that his point was so perfect and he held it so long that I was really wishing I could have captured it. It was won of the ah ha moments that you encounter in training dogs when everything comes together and it is a beautiful thing. Everyone recognizes it too. I have been lucky enough to have three of those moments this year with Ringo and Halo. Halo with her second major win, she was so on that day that I could have waited on the sideline as I was just holding the leash and along for the ride, then again with Halo when she went through her obedience run that won her HIT at the Nationals and finally this weekend when Ringo hit that first point on Sunday afternoon. They are priceless moments. |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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GSPoindexter
Posts:6


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| 10/19/2009 11:27 AM |
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| I had a great time hanging out with you and Tessa. Tessa is a sweetheart, I look forward to seeing you again at the next test. |
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Texas Belle Austin, TX
 MH Posts:7855


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GSPoindexter
Posts:6


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| 10/19/2009 11:46 AM |
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| Yes, it was our first AKC event and we had a blast. The people were so nice to us even though I was unprepared. I was not aware that I needed a blank pistol or a special collar. I will be better prepared next time. Dexter and Tessa looked like they had been running together since pups. |
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Texas Belle Austin, TX
 MH Posts:7855


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| 10/19/2009 12:12 PM |
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| Glad you both had a great experience. The hunting folks seem to all be very helpful and willing to work with the new folks and encourage them. That is great that the two dogs braced so well together. It is so much fun watching the dogs work. How did you and Dexter do? |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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TessaGA Georgia
 MH Posts:2387


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| 10/19/2009 12:24 PM |
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Hi Chris! I have more photos of Dexter and will email them to you later. Yes, those two were a good match. I was quite relieved to see her braced with Dexter. He strikes me as an all-business dog and I like that, and I know Tessa likes that too  |
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To live without dogs would mean accepting a form of blindness. [Thomas McGuane]
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GSPoindexter
Posts:6


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| 10/19/2009 12:29 PM |
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| Great, first day Dexter got a 10, 9, 9, 10. Second day he received a 9, 8, 8, 8 I believe. From what I heard, Senior will be night and day and require a lot more preparation. That will be a good excuse to spend more time with my dogs. |
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pixie bee
 MH Posts:4452


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| 10/19/2009 12:55 PM |
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Taking a dog to a test is the same as taking an 8 year old to the amusement park with 5 of their friends. A good dose of luck is always required. I like to think of it this way - as long as no one got hurt, fun was had and there are stories to tell the day worked out just fine. Get her on some birds,she'll focus earlier in the test if you do and you're both going to be looking at passes. Francine |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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Texas Belle Austin, TX
 MH Posts:7855


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| 10/19/2009 2:17 PM |
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pixie - I have to disagree with the statement "Taking a dog to a test is the same as taking an 8 year old to the amusement park with 5 of their friends." When I take a kid to the park whether it is an amusement park or any other park there is no preparation or work involved other than get dressed and ready to go. With a HT folks invest hours of work with their dogs on obedience, hunting skills, attention and focus, etc. If a handler is serious about the tests they and their dogs invest lots of time and resources in preparation even for JH, and more especially for SH and MH. You can also tell when that time is invested and it shows whether or not a dog qualifies on that particular day or not. There are allot of variables in qualifying besides the dog and handler. Allot also depends on the weather, the cover or lack of, the location of the test, skills of the bird planter, somtimes even your bracemate, and of course the birds. I am lucky as I belong to a club who has a nicely developed grounds for hunt tests and field trials. They also have very experienced folks running the tests and a bird planter that is very good. We also have access to good birds who fly pretty well unless it is really raining and wet. Most of our participants participate in Hunt Tests, Field Trials, NAVDHA events and hunt all over the country with their dogs. The dogs are very high caliber all breed pointing dogs. Our hunt tests, and I would wager to say the hunt test that Chris and Dagmar attended, are run in a very well organized professional manner. Many hours go into prepping for a hunt test and the weekend of the test the committee members invest lots of extra time in making the hunt test successful. I do not know where you have participated in Hunt Tests, but if they are as you say I think I would not go back to them.
No it is absolutely not like taking a kid to the amusement park and IMHO it belittles the people and dogs who participate in hunt tests to state that.
As for the statement "A good dose of luck is required" I can agree with that as I mentioned earlier all the variables that are out of our control, but can make a dog and handler successful or not. Of course we can argue that luck goes into everything we do, but hard work will also pay off in the end as well.
I also agree that a dog will get smarter and will be better prepared if they continue to work and mature, that in my opinion equates to training. Same for the handler which is why I like to see folks enter HT. It is a great opportunity to get a dog on birds and practice, you make connections in your area that lead to other training opportunities.
Maybe I misinterpretted your first statement, but it hit a bit of a raw nerve with me as I work hard to train my dogs for all performance venues I compete in and I like to think that hard work pays off in success and nice scores. It helps too that I have great dogs (and yes, I am prejudice). |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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TessaGA Georgia
 MH Posts:2387


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| 10/19/2009 3:16 PM |
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I now have a much clearer idea of a hunting test and my first observation (well, after seeing how damn close the horses were to the dogs) was that while it is more fun than I thought it's not really THAT easy even at the JH level. A lot of people made it sound like you just run the dog and it will do its thing. Much more goes into it. And while I agree that JH is most basic and does not require much "work" it does require some work. I spent hours upon hours (all added up over the past year) on her recall, and always worked on turning her, and tried to provide her with the best exposure (and that took some commitment at times) and that at least paid off yesterday. The pointing and bird finding may be part immaturity and most definitely inexperience as it is my bad that she has not been on many birds. It's not that you can have a pointing breed and decide to run it and it all magically happens for the dog with high scores. Now, I believe there are dogs that can do it without much or any preparation. Tessa is not one of those (and I am fine with that).
And yes, there are so many variables, too many to mention, that can make or break the test on a particular day or in a particular brace. That's what gives this some spice.
Watching the MH and SH - oh my. THAT requires work. The UT - even more. German hunting tests - even even more. Etc.
In the end, it gets people involved and active with their dogs in an area that is totally enjoyable for the dog. That's my main objective. I don't think Tessa gives two hoots about something orange hanging from the wall, but I know she loves every minute in the field wherever that may be and whether or not someone scribbles something on a scorecard when she leaves the field.
I therefore have to agree with Bev on this, but also want to add that I have the greatest respect for what Francine does and the levels she trains for. |
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To live without dogs would mean accepting a form of blindness. [Thomas McGuane]
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pixie bee
 MH Posts:4452


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| 10/19/2009 5:12 PM |
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Yes,you misinterpreted my first statement. What I wanted to say was that a dog,like a kid, will (can be) be out of control with excitement,atmosphere,ect and not always do as they are taught and should know better. Their focus is sometimes not there and a dog that you swear knows better will do the complete opposite of what they usually do when training. Just like a kid at an amusement park - they eat to much,drink to much soda,run around like chikens w/o a head,yell,ect. and they don't behave like the kid that "lives" in your home.(of course, not my kids,anyone who knows us, my kids are perfect) I always check the kennel before I open it at the test to make sure I took the "right" dog. I know all to well what prep work it takes to prepare for a test. I expose my dogs to the hunt experience from the first days I have them in our home. Hope I am more clear in what I wanted to get across. |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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pixie bee
 MH Posts:4452


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| 10/19/2009 5:23 PM |
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Tessa, when you see a dog do well, you know that dog has had exposure. At JH level it is all about exposure. It would be my advice that no one believe the stories about how 'my dog just knew what to do the very first time". Maybe there are dogs out there but I don't think so. JH or any NA test require exposure as often as possible to birds and working with the handler/trainer/owner. Exposure develops search,drive,nose and smarts. W/o exposure you have very little to work with. That's why in an earlier thread I suggested you take the JH test money and put it towards Brenda. Training matures a dog thru confidence and knowledge.The dog needs to learn about you in the hunt situation as much as you need to learn about how she hunts. |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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TessaGA Georgia
 MH Posts:2387


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| 10/19/2009 5:26 PM |
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What I wanted to say was that a dog,like a kid, will (can be) be out of control with excitement,atmosphere,ect and not always do as they are taught and should know better. Their focus is sometimes not there and a dog that you swear knows better will do the complete opposite of what they usually do when training That is certainly true. I have experienced it first hand (not yesterday thankfully). The evil twin... |
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To live without dogs would mean accepting a form of blindness. [Thomas McGuane]
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Texas Belle Austin, TX
 MH Posts:7855


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| 10/19/2009 6:05 PM |
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| Thanks for clarifying pixie. I would agree with that interpretation completely. I do think though it is good to run the hunt tests as a newbie (and this is based on my experience as a newbie) as I believe it helps the handler learn as much as the dog. The exposure to the truly knowledgeable people for the handler as well as the practice and the exposure to the birds for the dog are pretty good training for a small amount of $$ for the weekend. I learned so much at the HT I attended last spring and was introduced to the gentleman who I later used as a trainer. Those HT experiences really emphasized what Ringo and I needed to work on and Ronnie helped us get there over the summer. It was a nice gauge to then run a HT again and see the improvement in both me as a handler and Ringo. For these reasons I think it is good for Tessa to run the HT right now and then after this season is over she will know very clearly what to work on. Heck she learned a ton in just one day. |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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pixie bee
 MH Posts:4452


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| 10/20/2009 5:10 AM |
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This is where we differ in opinion. I don't think the tests should be used as training grounds. tessa has none-very little bird exposure and entering the tests doesn't help,IMO,b/c 1)this is a test,not a training day,it's a waste of time,money and effort to use a test as a training day - it is a good idea if the dog has been exposed properly to birds and other aspects of a test and then you TEST these on test day2)there are to many uncontrolled variables,3) you are unable to correct the dog,loosing much, if not all value in the testing/training day,4) one can often walk away with a lot of insight but much of what is walked away with,in a situation like this, should have been known before test day - wondering if your dog will point is not something you want to discover at a test - this should already be established and a given These are just my opinions. I am all for fun filled day around knowledgable folk,yadda,yadda,yadda. Train - then test. It's much fairer to the dog as well. Francine |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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