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Subject: Derby ?
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Clay BridgesUser is Offline


Posts:4


10/08/2009 2:37 PM  

Could someone give me an explanation of an akc derby?  What all does it include, what training should the pup have had?  Also, what is included in the puppy stake? I am very green to pointing dogs and have interest in running my gsp pup in a few trials in the future.

Thanks

Clay

Texas BelleUser is Offline
Austin, TX
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Posts:7843


10/08/2009 3:17 PM  
I did derby and puppy last year for the first time. Puppy, if I remember right, typically is just demonstrating how they search the field. They don't even have to find any birds. Derby is similar to Junior Hunter in that they have to search, find and point (for just a few seconds). They do not have to hold point and can chase birds. Both are more about natural ability than they are about training. If you want to know more here are a couple of links that you might find useful.

http://www.akc.org/pdfs/rulebooks/RHPPNT.pdf (Procedure)

http://www.akc.org/pdfs/rulebooks/RFTPNT.pdf (Rules and Regulations)


Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)

Yellow Rose GSPs

 photo FaunaBISJan20110001cropped_resized_zps96af44b6.jpg  photo DSC_0044_cropped_zps0a25f9ff.jpg  photo DSC_0030a_zps3c822a4a.jpg  photo DSC_0016cropped_zpsab533745.jpg

"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato
DesertRoseKennelUser is Offline

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Posts:1033


10/08/2009 3:27 PM  

First, you want to read the AKC Field Trial rulebook - which you can download on akc.org. My basic thoughts on the two below: (FYI, we're leaving for nationals tomorrow early am, so if I don't answer beyond this, my apologies)

AKC puppy - the judges are looking for a pup that is bold and unafraid, and knows why it is out there. The judges will want to see the pup checking logical objectives (treelines, bushes, deadfall, etc that is likely to hold birds) and using the wind intelligently. Playing with your bracemate is somewhat tolerated at this age, particularly at the cast off, but not for very long.  It doesn't look good if the pup is more interested in playing than hunting. Tagging or aggressive behavior is never tolerated. The pup should handle fairly well - meaning listen when you give it a command. It should hunt to the front - meaning between 9 and 3 on the clock, the more forward the better. Hunting behind is frowned upon. The pup needs to range away from you, not hunt right at your feet. Each judge has a different opinion of what the appropriate range is, and your pup is supposed to be judged based on its future potential as either a gundog (medium range) or all age (HUGE range). But in general, if your pup won't range at LEAST 50-100 yds out, preferably 200 yds now and then, or more, you won't most of the time place. If your pup feels the need to return all the way to you many times during the brace, the judges are likely to question its independence. You also need to be able to see the pup and gather him/her up at the end of the brace. If you do encounter birds on the course, you shoot your blank gun after either you or the pup flushes the bird. Most of the time, you will not find birds in puppy as it is not typically planted.

AKC derby - all of the above holds true, although the judges will be looking for more independence and more forward run at derby stage. Your pup also must find and point at least one bird and hold it long enough for two things to happen: you must "call" the point - meaning, declare it to the judge, and you should be able to get within reasonable shotgun range before the bird goes up. If the puppy bumps, chases, grabs, retrieves in derby this should not be penalized after establishing point. Whether the pup bumps the bird, or you flush it (which is the goal) you shoot your blank gun. Of course, the pup should not show any concern about the shot. That said, if they consistently bump and chase without pointing, that will not be looked upon kindly. Again, the judges are judging ability and future potential. The derby dog is not expected to honor if it encounters its bracemate on point. The derby dog will be judged on its point - judges will look for intensity on point and will often give preference to dogs who have a high point with a high tail, be that right or wrong.

Hope that helps.

Jean


"Our dogs are bred to be champion hunters who sleep on the bed"
www.desertrosekennel.com
Texas BelleUser is Offline
Austin, TX
MH
MH
Posts:7843


10/08/2009 3:55 PM  
Just so you know Jean has been doing this stuff along time and is an AKC judge for Hunt Tests and Field Trials, so I guess I am just saying she knows her stuff. She gave me lots of good advice and help last year when I first started so if you have more questions she is a great person to ask.

Jean - Good Luck at the Nationals!!

Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)

Yellow Rose GSPs

 photo FaunaBISJan20110001cropped_resized_zps96af44b6.jpg  photo DSC_0044_cropped_zps0a25f9ff.jpg  photo DSC_0030a_zps3c822a4a.jpg  photo DSC_0016cropped_zpsab533745.jpg

"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato
DesertRoseKennelUser is Offline

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Posts:1033


10/08/2009 5:09 PM  

Thanks Bev!!


"Our dogs are bred to be champion hunters who sleep on the bed"
www.desertrosekennel.com
pixie beeUser is Offline

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Posts:4450


10/09/2009 6:58 AM  
Jean,
have a good trip,have a lot of fun and best of luck.

Francine


"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
Clay BridgesUser is Offline


Posts:4


10/09/2009 1:27 PM  
Is there anything you would recommend to do to help the pup not to want to play or chase other dogs other than just exposure? I would imagine that once the pup got some purpose and knew he was looking for birds if he was any count he wouldnt worry with the other dog.
pixie beeUser is Offline

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Posts:4450


10/09/2009 1:35 PM  
You got it.
Some dogs do mature slower and point later but they usually all come around by 12 months old. Birds train a bird dog.



"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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