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TessaGA
Georgia
MH
Posts:2387
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| 10/05/2009 10:06 AM |
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So there are three weekends coming up - October, November, December - where I can run Tessa in the JH.
Unfortunately, I have not been able to socialize her with horses yet. I know the judges are on horseback. Tessa still barks at horses when she sees them. I will try to walk her near horses but we are kinda behind on this.
Question: should I just go to the test the first weekend to watch without entering her, or should I enter her anyway? I think that once in the field with the birds and the horses in the back, she'd be fine but I've never tried... |
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To live without dogs would mean accepting a form of blindness. [Thomas McGuane]
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Dirtysailor
Western PA
MH
Posts:134
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| 10/05/2009 10:18 AM |
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| I am probably lucky but I never even bothered with it. Just took mine to the test and let them go, the birds drove them for me they never hardly noticed the horses. Now they are used to them. |
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Texas Belle
Austin, TX
MH
Posts:7846
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| 10/05/2009 10:37 AM |
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I think Tessa will be fine. So the horses/judges hang back behind and you and your brace mate are out front a bit with the dogs. You release and the game is on. Normally with younger dogs the first five minutes is playtime between the brace mates. That can be nerve wracking because you want them working. Just remember this is a new game to Tessa. The only way she will learn is to get out and do it. Once the first bird is found, and hopefully they have good planters that plant some birds early in the course for the young dogs to find, then she will get down to business. You need to keep walking ahead, if she goes to the back keep walking and if necessary call her so she knows you are moving. Don't go back to get her, and don't keep calling her. Believe me, she knows where you are at. The horses are typically very used to dogs. Just remember you will not find birds by staying on a road or trail, and Tessa will follow your lead. You have to move out into areas where there are likely to be birds planted and the dog will get the idea. I would highly recommend you walk in the gallery with some braces before it is your turn. You will see where the dogs are finding birds. That is an advantage unless you draw the first or second brace, then you won't have time to walk in the gallery. Enter and have some fun. You will be amazed at how much natural ability Tessa has. Hopefully, you will also be braced with a little more experienced dog too which will help her.
By the way my boy now thinks if there is a horse around it is time to go hunt. We ran into a herd of horses hiking in Lake City up in a pasture on the last day. The horses were people friendly as they are trail horses and Ringo go so excited as he was absolutely convinced we were getting ready to play the bird game. The horses followed us for a while until they figured out they weren't getting any goodies from us. My girls are also pretty much uninterested in horses too. |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
   
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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TessaGA
Georgia
MH
Posts:2387
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| 10/05/2009 3:49 PM |
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Thanks, Bev, for your input. Alhough I am ready for anything good or bad, I don't expect any problems from bracing her, as she hunted with another dog before and they never played both just ran ran ran. "Playing in a field of birds are you kidding me?"  She also shares the dog park every weekend with an Irish Setter - they play for about two minutes maybe twice, the rest of the time is spent rummaging through the woods. Of course, we don't know what her brace mate will be like but we'll see. Good advice also about getting off the trails...
Turns out, there is a conflict of interest - our last NAVHDA training day is on 10/17, the Saturday of the first HT. So I will go train on Saturday, and enter her in the JH for Sunday. The advantage is that she can hunt herself tired on Saturday, that should help with the trip on Sunday. |
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To live without dogs would mean accepting a form of blindness. [Thomas McGuane]
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Texas Belle
Austin, TX
MH
Posts:7846
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| 10/05/2009 4:04 PM |
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| Good luck both at your training day and at the HT. I can't wait to hear about both. Looks like I will be getting back in the field with Ringo sooner than I thought. I had a show with Halo on the 17 & 18 Oct, but turns out the entries aren't there (no points), so change of plans. Will be going to a HT that weekend instead. |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4452
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| 10/05/2009 4:31 PM |
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Hey,
good luck.it'll be a fun 2 days.
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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snips
n.ga.
MH
Posts:413
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| 10/06/2009 6:25 AM |
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If you are making any progress steadying her, then JH will undo anything she has learned so far. |
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brenda |
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TessaGA
Georgia
MH
Posts:2387
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| 10/06/2009 9:46 AM |
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Brenda, I thought about that, but I have JUST started steadying her on birds last month, and it's more like, if I can help it she won't chase birds, meaning, I kept her on a check cord. I understand that running her in the JH will likely undo this (although there is not that much to undo yet), that is why I hope to get her JH asap so I can re-start steadying her in all seriousness, possibly with your help in February Then keep it up and train for the SH all next year and see how we can test in Fall 2010 or Spring 2011. That's my plan anyway.
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To live without dogs would mean accepting a form of blindness. [Thomas McGuane]
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4452
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| 10/06/2009 10:41 AM |
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How proficient is tessa at whoa w/o birds?
The way I train steadiness around birds is to make certain the whoa is completely understood and obeyed,this way they can make the connection as to why they are being corrected with the e-collar. If the whoa is where it needs to be for this I then have no hesitation to move on to the e-collar around birds. I don't start with flushing birds. I start with in sight and walking birds.I whoa the dog then intro the bird. I don't let the dog point in the begining. If tessa is sensitive enough where the e-collar is not needed then continue with the cc. I find that dogs become cc wise much more easily then collar wise. The cc is not timely enough,it's visual and audible. I also find that most dogs will figure out what slack they have been given and stop at just the right spot as to not hit the end. I also find the owners are afraid to use to much collar correction around birds and what they are really doing is not using enough. A dog is usually willing to take a softer correction then not chase. It is a tricky balancing act.
If you are going to do SH anyway then it is my suggestion that you take all the money you would spend for JH(traveling,entry fees,ect) and use it toward your idea of going to brenda.
If it's experience you want and need get it at the NAVHDA training days. Much handling experience comes from reading your dog,this you can get from hikes and off leash walks. Hunt train,even w/o birds, during these times. It enhances cooperation,obedience and handler skills.
Anyway,just my thoughts,
francine |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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Texas Belle
Austin, TX
MH
Posts:7846
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| 10/06/2009 11:02 AM |
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| Just another perspective, the JH level is allot of fun for us humans (both the hunting aspects and the socialization and getting to know others playing the game aspect). I think it is also fun for the young dogs and just builds their excitement about the game. If you are not in any rush with your dog to get to that next level, then go have the fun. After all that is why many of us have the dogs in the first place. Heck, it isn't necessarily a bad thing to slow down and have fun and let your dog mature a little too. Just my two cents and I know others may have a different opinion. |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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TessaGA
Georgia
MH
Posts:2387
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| 10/06/2009 12:39 PM |
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If it's experience you want and need get it at the NAVHDA training days.
They are coming to an end - last one is 10/17, next one in March.
Much handling experience comes from reading your dog,this you can get from hikes and off leash walks
We are doing plenty of that on a regular basis, it just doesn't compare to the feel of many other like-minded dogs, birds, guns, and the whole commotion.
If you are going to do SH anyway then it is my suggestion that you take all the money you would spend for JH(traveling,entry fees,ect) and use it toward your idea of going to brenda.
I don't mind spending the money on the JH, I still think it's well spent given the alternative of walking around the rental dog park which we can do any day. The tests are all within 100 miles from where I live, thankfully. When I say I will bring her to Brenda, this is mainly to have her worked on while I am in Germany, rather than having her in a regular boarding kennel, and it's only gonna be for 3-4 weeks max.
How proficient is tessa at whoa w/o birds?
Pretty solid and we are working on it regularly in different set-ups. It's with the birds when it all goes to hell, she's just so damn excited out there. I know that you (Francine) move at a faster pace and probably won't agree but I really do think Tessa has some maturing to do, she still is the wildest one of the bunch we have at ANY training day. Since I have not steadied her yet except with the check cord (no e-collar use on birds yet), mainly to keep her from running after the birds, I don't think I have that much to lose, although certainly may not gain much either other than having some more fun and exposure.
And let's not forget, I am a Junior too! As you know, I am clueless! As a matter of fact, even more clueless than my dog, and that's the truth! So I think JH is a good way for me to get a feel for hunting tests and get over some of my newbie jitters. And like Bev said, it may be a lot of fun. I actually know the folks that own the grounds, the two judges and probably most of the Viszla folks that are organizing it, so it'll all be in the family.
If for some reason she won't get the JH by early next year, I will skip it and start working towards the SH starting with her stay at Walnut Hill.
Sometime soon she needs to be spayed too, so I am trying to find a window to do so without having the recovery affect any of these plans. I have more appointments for my dog than for myself!
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To live without dogs would mean accepting a form of blindness. [Thomas McGuane]
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Texas Belle
Austin, TX
MH
Posts:7846
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4452
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| 10/06/2009 2:07 PM |
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I suggested the passing on JH b/c brenda had a good point and I remember in another thread you posted about begining steadiness and then you mentioned bringing tessa to brenda. I would rather save testing money if it afforded me a week or 2 or 3 of time with a worthwhile trainer. I was trying to express my practical side.
Comraderie is fun but a better trained dog is better.
In regards to tessa needing a little maturing. Now, I don't her and I don't know you. From what you have posted I think tessa is mature enough to have pressure added to her sessions.The excitability you speak of is more caused by lack of training. Trained dogs are more mature due to training. I think she has learned thru experience of excitability that if she acts this way she doesn't have to obey-no pressure,she may not get what she wants but she is not aware fully of what she is doing- aware fully that her behavior is depriving her. Being new to this you are understandably hesitant to make a wrong correction or implement the proper obedience.Add pressure to the sessions and she will be calmer and have more trust that YOU can control the situation. Without the experience of controling herself-knowing that she can- and not wanting pressure(not wanting to be told what to do) - she acts uncontrolable. It works to her advantge,she just doesn't know yet that she will get more if she is calmer. That's what training does-we train to change behavior.
Germany for you,Walnut Hills for tessa - I'm jealous!
Francine
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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TessaGA
Georgia
MH
Posts:2387
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| 10/06/2009 3:07 PM |
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Comraderie is fun but a better trained dog is better.
Both are important to me.
I really do think she is a wild one that will still need to settle in some more. It's my gut feeling and I will go by it until someone more experienced gets to work with her and sees something else.
Of course she gets plenty of training nonetheless ... just not the big crackdown yet.
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To live without dogs would mean accepting a form of blindness. [Thomas McGuane]
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4452
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| 10/06/2009 4:54 PM |
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"the big crackdown'
That sounds scary!
The word pressure does not imply an amount. When I suggested adding pressure it was in the form of insistence and persistence on your behalf. I see tessa as being insistent and persistent and getting her way. You need to be that way also but win - if win is the correct word.
I do see something else. I see (hear about) her behavior at training days. This,IMO, is not immaturity, it is a call,a scream, for training.
Just my 2 cents worth and probably worth less.
Francine
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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TessaGA
Georgia
MH
Posts:2387
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| 10/06/2009 6:06 PM |
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So I'm a pushover?
You only heard about ONE training day that went horribly wrong. The last training day went very well for where we stand.
All I can say is you MUST see her to judge. Seriously. |
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To live without dogs would mean accepting a form of blindness. [Thomas McGuane]
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4452
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| 10/07/2009 5:35 AM |
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I believe you, I believe you.
Her behavior will improve with each exposure b/c with exposure comes training. Thing is, you can expose at the test but you can't train at a test. So, tessa will get away with less corrections thus retraining her that excitablity wins out.
Anyway, nothing wrong with being a pushover. You're really not a pushover, you're uncertain.You'll be a lot meaner with your next dog.LOL.
I know exactly what tessa is about. I have seen her behavior in sooo many dogs(of any breed). And there is always just one answer - training.
Dogs are supposed to relieve stress not add to it. Have fun with her.
Francine |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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