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SplatUser is Offline
Illinois (Northern)
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09/04/2009 8:35 AM  

In another post on the forum someone suggested that I at least do NA testing with Blitz even though I have never hunted.  I looked up a chapter of NAVHDA and found the Illinois chapter.  I guess it is $25 for the year of membership.  Then I guess it is $15 to register your dog.  On the testing form it says there is a testing fee, but it doesn't say how much.  Does all this sound right so far?

Now for questions...

How old should the dog be for NA testing?

What does the dog have to know for the testing, do I teach it anything special, this is natural ability so I am not sure if I teach anything?

What do I do for the testing?


pixie beeUser is Offline

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09/04/2009 9:09 AM  
Basic membership to NAVHDA International is $55. You can join a chapter if you like but it is unnecessary for testing.
Not sure of the age but there is a cut off age for NA maybe 18 months old?

Some dogs need only exposure while others need training.
One thing to do is expose the dog dog fields w/o birds and fields with birds,gunfire and different types of water-some dogs only see clear water and when exposed to dark,mukky,whatever water, they refuse to enter.

It is lots of fun and you will make a core group of friends who are like minded.






"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
bruns333User is Offline
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09/04/2009 10:07 AM  
No minimum age up to 16 months are allowed to receive a Prize in a NA test. If your dog is over 16 months you can still test and receive a score just no Prize.

Where temperament means performance
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http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=941
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=3626
SplatUser is Offline
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09/04/2009 10:54 AM  

Thanx for the info...

What is the actual test...Do you just walk into a field with the dog and hope it gets a bird? Do you have to do any shooting for the test? I am sorry if I sound dumb, but like I said I have never hunted, but my pup does come from some hunting dogs and it would just be interesting to see if any thing comes natural...

We do have a back pasture that is semi swampy (very wet) and he loves going back there in the tall grass, I would say these don't have birds in them as they fly away long before we get there. So far I have seen him sniff the ground and air, but not point at anything. He likes to "hunt" and "kill" weeds. The first day we owned him he saw our cockatiel out of his cage and was very interested so we decided the bird only comes out when Blitz is in his kennel or outside. As far as guns my husband does cowboy mounted shooting so one of these days we are gonna easy into him hearing the gun. Then onto fields with birds in them, there is a pheasant hunting place (not sure of correct term) that friends of ours have gone to and have hunted at. I guess you buy the birds and they then release them into the field for you to hunt.  As for the water he has seen large muddy puddles and wasn't too sure of them and he has swam in the pool, but we set him in he didn't jump cuz we don't have a deck.  I do plan on getting him in more water cuz I would like to try dock dog jumping and retrieving.


pixie beeUser is Offline

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09/04/2009 11:25 AM  
Your membership includes the http://www.navhda.org/testrule.pdf
but you can read it from this link.

Get your dog in empty fields to work on cooperation and bird fields to work on search and point, get the dog accustom to gunfire, get a bird and work on tracking-you need to pull the flight feathers from a bird,preferrably a larger bird like a pheasant and let the bird run into cover a few hundred feet,leave some breast feathers at the start and allow the dog to smell them and then let the dog do it's thing,then you need to make sure the dog will swim 2x after a bumper.

The toughest aspect of any testing is inexperience of the person training and running a dog. Many times the dog is doing the right thing but the owner/handler does not know it. There is more than one way to skin a cat and certainly more than one way to perform each task at a test.

There are some NAVHDA judges here so maybe they will tune in and give a better answer.

To add a note: the organization was started to help hunters know if they had a capable dog. The reading of scores and the interpretation is as important to the dog then the actual prize awarded.


"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
SplatUser is Offline
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09/04/2009 11:40 AM  
Yeah our downfall will be me not knowing what we are suppose to do, LOL!

I guess as we get further in our basic commands, we then work on them in an empty field and make sure Blitz is willing to listen to those commands. Then we can work on the bird stuff you explained. The bumper and swimming is all stuff I need to do for dock jumping so hopefully we can perfect that! He should also get used to the guns because we will be using them as often as possible with the mounted shooting and we can work that into his training too.

Thanx for the info...I will look over that link too!

pixie beeUser is Offline

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09/04/2009 12:10 PM  
Obedience is not judged,only cooperation. The judges are not looking for a dog who whoas,sits,ect. They will be looking to see if the dog checks in and there are many ways a dog can check in,if the dog wants to work as a team,is the dog in the next field busting all the birds,that sort of thing.
I work on cooperation by turning direction when the dog is not looking at me,if he turns then he is paying attention and wants to hunt as a team.I do a bunch of other things to encourage cooperation and it is important to know your dog and sees what works for the 2 of you.
When fireing for the first few times,keep the shots to a minimum,maybe 1 or 2 at first and make sure the dog is very interested in something else. Some dogs will have a startled reaction which is not to be confused with shyness.

You will have lots of fun with getting the dog prepared-the bonding is amazing.


"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
SplatUser is Offline
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09/04/2009 12:33 PM  
In the cooperation area...while out do I call to the dog at all or is it all done just by the dog watching me? Right now when we go for our walk in the back pasture I let him roam around but if he stops at something for a while and I get bored I then just walk off somewhere else and he normally just follows me and I don't say anything especially since he doesn't know the "come" yet so I don't want to use it and then have him not come.

Thanx for the advice on the firing too!

pixie beeUser is Offline

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09/09/2009 7:49 AM  
During an NA test you really don't have to give any commands. The less you give the less that is disobeyed. Cooperation is not obedience.Cooperation is more of an unspoken desire to work with someone. Judges understand they are dealing with young and untrained,for the most part,puppies and dogs. This is about natural ability, not a finished or semi-finished gun dog. I do not believe in holding a dog back in training until natural ability tests are over with. Natural ability can not be trained or covered up,only improved.

Give a puppy/dog exposure and they will show you what they were born with. Then start training.


"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
HoganUser is Offline
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09/09/2009 5:21 PM  
If I may make a suggestion, get your pup accustomed to working a dirty field. Ie. this means a field that a number of bird planters, dog handlers, and other dogs have already worked. This may be the case on test day, depending on the running order.
When I say a dirty field, this would be for the field portion of the test. The track and the water will not have this problem.
SplatUser is Offline
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09/11/2009 7:30 AM  
It will be harder for me to do some practice runs with birds and to do some runs with left over scents from other dogs and birds, but I will see what I can come up with. We aren't hunters so we just don't have the experience. I also will have to find out where I can get a bird (pheasant) that I can use for this to practice on, well I may end up needing more than one bird for a couple practices depending on how the hunt goes. We have plenty of time to work on this since he is only 11 weeks old now. I am thinking next summer doing the testing...I am not sure if they test in the winter or if I would want to since I hate the snow (which is a problem living in northern IL).

pixie beeUser is Offline

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09/11/2009 11:14 AM  
You own horses. You must have someplace 'wildernessy' to ride them?
Just take the pup hiking,out to a camp ground ,whatever. No farms around you? Go the the silo with a bright light at night and watch the pigeons drop. Bag them and your set. No horse friends with land? Can't be.


"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
SplatUser is Offline
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09/12/2009 6:25 AM  
We have the land that isn't the problem...it is getting the birds, but there must be places to buy them...

We had Blitz outside while my husband was doing his mounted shooting practice, so he heard guns....He was even right up by the arena....the gun shots didn't bother him at all but when my husband would canter (run) his horse towards the gate Blitz would run away and then come back....

TessaGAUser is Offline
Georgia
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10/05/2009 10:34 AM  

I am new to all of this too. I got Tessa right as the local NAVHDA training days came to an end for the winter, so I just did puppy conditioning with her. In March I went to the first training day where she had her first exposure to quail, a pheasant, gunshots and some real swimming. It was clear she had a desire to hunt but she needed more experience. Still, the folks said she looks ready for the NA which was the following weekend! It was booked, and I scrambled to get my paperwork in order, just in case, and sure enough, we got in on a cancellation and came out of it with a Prize II.

Paperwork: You need the AKC registration and pedigree to register the dog with NAVHDA. You don't have to join NAVHDA at this point - in fact, I still have not joined (only the local chapter), but Tessa is registered.

Fee: is usually around $ 100. Our test fee was $ 125. This covers all the birds.

Test: Here is the link to the rules:

www.navhda.org/testrule.pdf

Make sure you tell them that you are new to this. My judges and all the NAVHDA members there were super nice and very helpful. In the field, they want you to know what the dog is doing, where the dog is, and mainly, to shut up. Just as if you were hunting with your dog, you walk on, they will tell you which direction and follow you. The dog most likely - preferably - will be ahead of you. I said "hunt 'em up" every so often but other than that, it was silent walking. At one point she chased the bird and went out of sight - judges said, let her go. After a while they instructed me to call her back. I whistled and she came, which was good. Then they suggested I grab her collar and lead her away from where the bird had been and flown off to, to a different area, but when I finally had to release her, she ran back to the old spot, and then we had some issues with the recall, which cost us that one point I am sure (3 out of 4 for cooperation). So I would not ask the dog to do anything unless you are sure it will obey, or unless instructed by the judges.

The tracking portion went kinda wrong, make sure that the dog 100% is on the track before releasing it, I think I let Tessa go to early, and once you release, you must stand there without speaking or moving or giving any cues to the dog. We were close to failing at that point. She had done an excellent track the week before but not on that day. Tracking is tricky, aside from experience there's also weather, wind, etc that will have an impact on the dog's performance.

Water was easy, but she was always crazy about water even in the winter. I did watch a couple of dogs struggle with it, but believe me, the judges do anything to get the dog in the water. One had 15 bumpers float in the pond. Followed by a dead bird. Lots of coaxing. If the dog does not enter the water, it will fail the entire test. If it goes in for a dead bird only, that's a big deduction but at least he/she passes the water portion.

Tessa was 9 months old.

Good luck and let us know how you're doing!


To live without dogs would mean accepting a form of blindness. [Thomas McGuane]
My creation
TessaGAUser is Offline
Georgia
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10/05/2009 10:49 AM  
BTW although we got prize II, our score was "only" 87. As Francine says, the score says more than the prize, but you also need to look where the points fall. The NA score is calculated by importance - it's all explained in the link I mentioned.

There was one dog that scored much higher - perfect in every category - but would not go in the water at all, so you can have a score of 100 points or so and not prize at all.

To live without dogs would mean accepting a form of blindness. [Thomas McGuane]
My creation
pixie beeUser is Offline

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10/05/2009 11:23 AM  
Reading scores is the only way to read a prize. It is important to ask why a lower score was given. Most of the time you here excuses but sometimes you here reasons. There are those that are hell bent on getting a prize l. I don't prize shop. Haiko failed UT twice b/c of steadiness issues in the field. He is rock solid in every other steadiness catagory. Always remember,you can't hide or produce natural ability. It is either there or not. Now, what is a super performance according to one person may not get the same rave reviews by another. When I look at a dog I don't look at what a dog was trained to do I look at what the dog does. My dogs have trained (and performed on one occasision,)with painful injuries. They do not stop. A desired response may be quick to elicit but it is the endurance of the response that makes the difference.
just my 2 cents
Francine


"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
TessaGAUser is Offline
Georgia
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10/05/2009 11:48 AM  

I didn't need to ask why the lower score was given. When I compared the score card to how Tessa worked that day, it all matched up for me. But she did well "enough" in the important areas to get her Prize II which given both of our inexperience I didn't really expect (much less a Prize I). In the end though, the NA is more an evalutation than a test.


To live without dogs would mean accepting a form of blindness. [Thomas McGuane]
My creation
pixie beeUser is Offline

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10/05/2009 12:08 PM  
Sorry, I wasn't clear. I didn't mean to ask the judges I meant as a curious mind to ask the handler. People often ask me about my dog's scores. I like to think we are from the crowd with reasons and not excuses but I may be biased.LOL.
The handler's perspective is sometimes not the same as the judges or you will hear the whys from the handler.Judges judge what they see w/o prior knowledge of a dog,a handler or training sessions.


"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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