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Cornbread
 SH Posts:50

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| 03/02/2009 3:37 PM |
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I'm talking with a breeder about a well bred (according to the pedigree) pup who the breeder kept and is now willing to sell.
he is not going to be as big as the breeder wanted for breeding purposes. the dog has been in a show or two and is entered in another upcoming show.
It is unquestionably a reputable breeder from my area...however, I'm curious and seeking input as to what questions I should ask to further ensure comfort with the big decision?
My thought is that this has appeal because the pup is leash broken, crate trained, fairly housebroken and so a fair amount of the "puppy work" is established or done...though you're never really done, I know.
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Texas Belle Austin, TX
 MH Posts:7835


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| 03/02/2009 10:54 PM |
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What are your plans for this dog? What types of activities are you going to do with your dog? If you are planning on doing conformation, then I would want to know how the dog has done so far in the ring? What does his pedigree look like as far as CH? Why isn't the breeder keeping the pup if his is a good show dog? If he is on the smaller side, has this been a problem in the ring? Does he have any faults or markings that will make him difficult to finish?
If you don't plan to show him in conformation, then what are your plans? That will guide some of the questions. If you are going to hunt him, then I would ask if he has been introduced to birds, the gun, etc. What does his pedigree look like from a hunting perspective? Does this breeder also do field work with their dogs?
If your thing is obedience, then has he had basic obedience like sit, down, stay, etc?
You get the idea. There are also the basic questions on health clearance for the sire and dam. Any problems with the rest of the litter? How has this pup been socialized? What training has he had so far? Beyond that, if you like the dog and the breeder is a good breeder, then I would say you have found a match.
The only other thing I would recommend, is if there is something worrying you about the breeder or dog ask. |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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Cornbread
 SH Posts:50

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| 03/03/2009 6:19 AM |
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| 10-4 to all that! Thanks! |
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singltrak Las Cruces, NM
 MH Posts:1149


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| 03/04/2009 3:30 PM |
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But if you are going to plan on hunting the dog or running in trials...do not teach sit or down... If the dog is only 6 months old, how can they tell how big the dog will be? And how many shows can he have been in? Ask the breeder or ask here...but do your homework beforehand... |
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Look to the Past, Breed for the Future |
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pixie bee
 MH Posts:4448


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| 03/04/2009 3:37 PM |
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now,now,now,don't be spreading rumors. (smiley face would be inserted but I'm in quick reply) |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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Cornbread
 SH Posts:50

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| 03/04/2009 3:40 PM |
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| We're going to pass and stick with the plan for an 8wk old pup. Thanks! |
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Texas Belle Austin, TX
 MH Posts:7835


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| 03/04/2009 4:08 PM |
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OT - sorry
Phyllis - Why not teach sits and downs for hunting or field trialing? Ringo knows sit and down, but hasn't caused any problems so far. He certainly seems to have figured out the difference. Same with Halo who already has a CD in obedience.
Just curious. |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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singltrak Las Cruces, NM
 MH Posts:1149


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| 03/05/2009 12:17 AM |
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| Under pressure (from you, a bird that is ready to leave, or even second guessing himself, the dog may sit or lie down.) Its not something you want to happen when you are seconds away from winning a big retrieving major. |
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Look to the Past, Breed for the Future |
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pixie bee
 MH Posts:4448


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| 03/05/2009 6:14 AM |
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Has this actually happened? |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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bravepoint North Gower, ON Canada
 MH Posts:894


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| 03/05/2009 6:33 AM |
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I know this teaching sit thing is a controversial topic in our NAVHDA Chapter.... I always teach sit first thing. For me, i is a control thing and good to have if the dog is jumping on people, waiting to go thru doors etc. I can't even imagine my dogs sitting on point but then I'm not as harsh as some in my training. Gail |
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Gail, Moka, Avery, Terra & Rayne Bravepoint GSPs
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Texas Belle Austin, TX
 MH Posts:7835


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zimbass
 MH Posts:237


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| 03/06/2009 12:15 PM |
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| Just my thought, my GSP is kind of a soft dog, so for now all I train him for is hunting or testing, keeping it fun. He will sit on command if you have a treat, but no treat no sit. If were in a situation where I need control, I can leash him up and he will stand by my side, usually pretty calm, until released. |
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http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=2095 http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=2532
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WildRose Seymour Texas
 MH Posts:471


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| 04/22/2009 10:28 PM |
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Posted By pixie bee on 03/05/2009 6:14 AM
Has this actually happened?
Thousands of times. I actually had to order a dog up this weekend for sitting during an extended flushing attempt. It was a shame too since the dog was otherwise having a nice run.
Had a client dog here last year that took me an extra six or eight weeks to get staunched up on point because he kept sitting down. Sit had been taught when he was young by the wife because she didn't like the dog's energy level or him jumping up on her and the kids.
Teaching sit is fine, as long as it's long after the pointing dog work is finished up to the point at which the dog is as "finished" as you want.
Doing it sooner can create serious issues for the future. Why train in something like this you may well have to train out later. |
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There's a reason I like dogs better'n people... . |
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pixie bee
 MH Posts:4448


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| 04/23/2009 6:35 AM |
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This is a mute point. So many people will tell you that the only reasons a dog will sit on point is b/c the trainer was harsh for that particular dog or because the dog lacks intensity from the get-go. (or a combo of both) Anyone who wants to argue any other reasons is living in denial. If someone is not sure they should wait to teach sit. Kinda like a safety device. I teach sit,down before the dog points. My other GSPs, 6 of them, (I didn't teach down)have never sat on point and the command was well engrained in them. The risk of sitting for a FT dog is not worth the game. If anyone is training for FT'ing I would recommend not to teach sit. |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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Texas Belle Austin, TX
 MH Posts:7835


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rickp El Paso, TX
 MH Posts:173


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| 04/25/2009 11:28 AM |
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While we've strayed from the original topic, the sit/no sit discussion has been hashed over many times. I don't teach sit until the dog is older, but I've also worked with others that do teach sit earlier with no apparent problems. A lot depends on the dog.
As an aside, there are 2 specific reasons mentioned in the Field Trial rules for a judge ordering up a dog, and sitting is not one of them (as they say, I'll leave it to you, gentle reader, to discover what they are )
Rick |
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WildRose Seymour Texas
 MH Posts:471


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| 05/09/2009 12:55 AM |
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Posted By rickp on 04/25/2009 11:28 AM
While we've strayed from the original topic, the sit/no sit discussion has been hashed over many times. I don't teach sit until the dog is older, but I've also worked with others that do teach sit earlier with no apparent problems. A lot depends on the dog.
As an aside, there are 2 specific reasons mentioned in the Field Trial rules for a judge ordering up a dog, and sitting is not one of them (as they say, I'll leave it to you, gentle reader, to discover what they are )
Rick
Rick you are absolutely right as far as the rule book goes and I used the wrong terminology in trying to be brief. While I didn't "order the dog up", what I did was to tell the handler that because her dog had sat down on point it was out of contention for a placement. Being an experienced handler and since we still had the bracemate under judgment the dog actually was allowed to continue. The reason being this was the first time she'd handled this particular dog since the owners death when his wife brought the dog to this trainer she wanted to see if it was a pressure issue or something else.
We left the dog down and she did have another find in short order. However it was quite apparant to all of us in the meantime that the dog was completely gassed/exhausted. She didn't sit down on the subsequent bird but as soon as the handler was through working the bird the dog went and layed down in the shade. At that point the handler said, "thank you and we rode on."
I learned a couple of years ago particularly in an Amateur stake to ALWAYS let the handler know if something has happened that puts the dog completely out of contention so as to avoid the occasional "I got screwed" when the placements are announced. We had a guy go completely ballistic becaus his friend who handled his dog had told the owner that his dog had the stake won hands down. The dog was terrible on it's birdwork on all four finds and went all the way down on his belly on the last one but the handler never watched his dog so he was unaware of how poor the birdwork was. |
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There's a reason I like dogs better'n people... . |
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