We are considering a pup from a bitch who's first litter is this one.  She's just under two yrs of age and thus does not yet have a hip rating.  Breeder seems very responsible, provided references from other pups from other female they own and all seem satisfied.  they have a contract and health guarnantee (though I have yet to review).  their females produce one litter per year maximum.

the mother of our litter seems healthy, comes from sound rated dame and sire and the father of this litter has a sound OFA rating. 

If there's no history of displasia in the bloodline is this too much of a gamble?? 

Also, please tell me your stories as to pups that end up with dysplasia...can't imagine sending an pup back after +1 yr or after my daughter(and me for that matter) have connected with the pup...however, we had a dog who ended up with genetic-isms and it was more like a cat-dog (not what I want again.  Do people send dogs back, really? 

I'm a little paranoid because friends of ours have a 8month old Golden with dysplasia and all are disappointed (they didn't do much homework knowing them though).

A good breeder will generally provide a contract and guarantee with their dog, some even have new buyer policies and questionaires.  I suggest getting those documents and reading them first, then if you have questions ask the breeder.  Good breeders are open to discussion and anything within reason is possible, including a breeder taking back a dog, giving you choice in the next litter, giving you a partial refund, etc.  It sounds like from your initial post that the breeder is responsible.  Some folks won't breed a shorthair at that age and some won't breed until they have all the health clearances, but I don't think we know the circumstances yet of why this bitch was bred.  Maybe it was an accident, but still good parents and hopefully good pups.  So, do your homework and then have a conversation with the breeder.  After that only you can judge, but use your head and your heart in that judgement.  Good luck!!

We've never dealt with dysplasia personally - however we certify all dogs before ever considering breeding. Phyllis is right - dysplastic hips are very rare in the breed. Having said that, I personally wouldn't take the risk. My vet tells of a 12 yr old GSP he cared for who had been a die-hard personal gundog nutjob runner for the first 12 years of his life. He finally started favoring his hip at that late stage and his owners brought him in. My vet was shocked at the xrays - they showed a ball joint that was shattered into a million pieces. And from the calcification, he was confident it had happened when the dog was young. While this wasn't dysplasia, it proves to me that GSPs especially cannot be judged by how they look or move. I get into arguments with fellow field trialers about this. Many of them believe that if a dog can run field trials (especially all age) without being lame, their hips are fine. Not necessarily so.

I personally would at a minimum want to see preliminary xrays done on the dam. Additionally breeding a dog before age two is not a great idea in my book - she hasn't truly proven herself and many things can pop up at later ages.

"the mother of our litter seems healthy, comes from sound rated dame and sire and the father of this litter has a sound OFA rating. "

Can you offer more details on what this means?I have no idea how to interpret what you mean by this.

I would second this.  Belle tore her bicep tendon in her front right shoulder when she was about 9 months old.  The only indication that anything was wrong was when I would put her in a long sit she would continually shift her front feet around.  This was out of character for her.  When I took her to the vet initially they thought I was nuts, especially when the first xray didn't show anything conclusive.  I persisted and finally 6 months later an orthopedic surgeon took another xray and it showed the damage.  Prior to taking the xray though the surgeon had manipulated her shoulder and had about decided there was no issue, and then took the xray just as a precaution.  When he came back to show me the results he said "this dog should have bitten my head off when I manipulated her leg."  GSPs can withstand allot of pain, and ofter display injuries in very subtle ways.

My thoughts on each item below:

1) When the dam's sister was OFA rated they "putting her on the table and the process of taking the xrays is such that they get stretched out and it made her really sore". So sore that she was not back to normal activity for more than a week and the breeder said that "it made her miss her next cycle".

This is a load of hooey, I'm sorry. I would actually be worried if my dog was sore after OFA xrays. Either the vet was way too heavy handed, or the dog really struggled and should have been sedated - or perhaps has issues with its hips. Mine don't require sedation - so I don't have personal experience there. I would highly doubt that would make a bitch miss a cycle. Sounds like excuses why they don't want to pay for certification.

3) As to why breed prior to 2nd birthday?...they wanted to wait until her 2nd cycle and they don't track it according to date of birth.

Personal opinion again - but the second cycle is WAY too early. I still stand by my earlier statement. To intentionally breed before the age of 2 is a bad idea. Besides all the things that can crop up later, a bitch under two isn't done growing herself and isn't physically or mentally ready to be a mama.

4. They do guarantee hips for 2 yrs and said (have yet to see the contract) that if the pup develops dyplasia we could return it and pick from their next litter.

If one pup is dysplastic, why would you want another from their line? Something to think about. And just because a dog makes it to age 2 without dysplasia does not mean it won't develop later.

This is important to me because it says they stand behind the dog.

5. Breeder said that the sire's parents are rated...should I ask for a copy / proof of this along with pedigree family tree thing to see his parents and g-parents? Is this a reasonable request?

I take this to mean that the sire isn't certified either? The breeder should be offering the pedigree without you having to ask. You can look up the dogs in the pedigree on the OFFA site to verify.

My two cents - too many things would concern me here personally. However, it is your choice.

Jean


 

just have to think about 15 yrs not a few months

That is EXACTLY what you should be thinking. If everyone made puppy buying decisions that way puppy mills would go out of business. Congratulations on using your head, not your heart, to make the decision. That's not easy to do.

Jean

If it helps any at all, my breeder for my three still stays in touch with me and actually posts Halo's wins and brags on her website with pictures.  I can go to her anytime for advice.  I am now on my second pup from this breeder (my male Ringo) and I count my breeder as a good friend.  Questions (of which I have many) are always answered and we stay pretty much in touch all the time.  That is the level of interest I would expect of a breeder of any pup I would purchase. The first conversation I ever had with this breeder lasted well over an hour.  Both of us were interviewing the other.  All of her dogs and pedigrees are posted with all health clearances on her website.  She never breeds her bitches before about 4 years of age and typical only does one litter every two to three years. I generally get a call from her whenever she is thinking about breeding because she knows how I treat the pups.  Anyway, the only reason I posted this is to give you an idea of what to look for in a breeder and the relationship between you and your breeder. Anything less and I would walk away.