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Subject: [working-gundog] The 30-06 with 250 grains bullet
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rospiganUser is Offline

MH
MH
Posts:372


10/05/2008 5:20 PM  
Jere wrote:
>>>The 30/06 has stood me in good stead all these years since I built it on a surplus
Springfield 1903 barreled action bought for $20 from government surplus as a
teenager.  I have a box or two of 250 Gr Barnes? bullets but have never loaded any
cartridges with them.  Say some more about what you find to be a good load when you
do, eh?>>>

 
I could not sleep so I got up and checked the supply of the 30-06 ammo I have. I have plenty of them of different kinds so I will not load the 250grain Woodleigh right now. Still I have made the basic planning and found a starting load but not for my Woodleigh bullet, but for the 250 grain Barnes that you have. I found it in a handloading book from Finland:
 
Bullet: Barnes 250grains Original RNSP. Primer CCI200. Case: Lapua. LOA 81mm. Barrel 620mm. Pitch 1/10"
 
The powders are the Vihtavuori N-powders:
 
N160 starting load 40,9 grains 580 m/s. Max 47,8 grains 648 m/s
 
N560 starting load 43,7 grains 599 m/s. Max 51,8 grains 673 m/s
 
N165 starting load 42,7 grains 584 m/s. Max 49,5 grains 653 m/s
 
The max. performance for the 220 grain Hornady and Woodleigh bullets with N560 in this book are pretty much the same that  I have developed and chronografed so I guess the 250 grain loads are rather OK also.
 
I will use the N560 powder but the hotter Federal 215 primer suggesting that I should reduce the max. load with 1 grain, about. Then again I will use the Norma cases that have a lot more boiler room than the Lapua cases so I will add the lost 1 grain again to the max. load, and perhaps even more. The 220 grain Woodleigh bullets I have measured use to be just slightly larger in diameter than the 220 grain Hornady, and the jacket seems to be a bit thicker and harder, creating higher pressures, so what the max. load will be is finally determined by the case head expansion. I allow 1/100 of a millimetre.
 
The N560 powder is a high energy double base powder burning very slowly. It has not been critical when reaching max. loads and I have experimentally with 220 grain bullets been well over the limits recommended in the loading books. The 220 grains Woodleigh with a set-back safe load leaves the mussel of my gun at a measured 800 m/s. The barrel I have is not a really "normal" one, but it comes from the British ARS (Arms Restoration Service) and they claim it is 30% stiffer than an ordinary rifle barrel and hence most likely harder and more smooth, more like a machine gun barrel perhaps. I guess the bullets might pass it more easy than an ordinary barrel. That could explain why I get a little better performance from it than the old barrel that was pretty ordinary. Anyway it is not stainless but made from some carbon steel mixture.
 
The drawback with the N560 powder is the heavy fouling of the barrel and the very impressive mussel blast and flame - in the 300 Winchester Magnum class. I use to call it for "the heavy fuel oil of the gun powders". If you don't like to clean your barrel often, and do not like to use ear protection, then use something else instead :-)) The characteristic of these type of powders also make them sensitive to too light charges, they just might, in very rare cases, detonate unless ignited properly. Therefore I use the hot Federal 215 primer, it will ensure a fast ignition of the entire mass of powder and not just whisk it around in the case with a delayed ignition and possible following detonation as a result. Interestingly the Fed. 215 primer was originally developed for the extremely large 378 Weatherby Magnum case - unless my memory fails me.
 
Norma MRP and MRP2 burn cleanly and are almost as efficient as the N560, of the Scandinavian slow burning powders. Then again you have hundreds of different superb "native" powders over there. We can have them here too but they are due to the extra cost of the dangerous goods transports rather expensive, once on this side of the big pool.
 
There is one more thing with the 220 - 250 grains bullets in the 30-06 that is not out of importance. The zero free-flight over all length of the cartridge would be 86 mm in my Mauser 98 action rifle but since the cartridge has to fit into the magazine and feed reliably from there I have to reduce it to 83 mm, or perhaps even more when I have tried it out thoroughly. The bullet will take up a lot of boiler room and we will see what it does to the final charge and performance.
 
Whatever, when you are hunting, moderate and safe pressures are always to prefer before highest possible speeds. Nobody likes a case that has stuck in the chamber, particularly not when your grizzly is coming :-)))
 
The only doubt I might have about this bullet is this: Will the 1/10 twist in my barrel stabilize this very long bullet? I guess the only way to find out is to shoot at paper at different distances and see if it makes key-holes at some distance. I believe that somewhere at Barnes website there is a recommendation for the 30-06 of a 1/9 or 1/9,5 twist.... I presume they think about their very long all-copper X-bullets...
 
There has lately been a slowly growing interest in bullets with a high sectional density. The interest comes from those who have been to Africa and failed with high speed bullets on dangerous game. The 375HH for example has a for long time been misused with light 270 grains bullets. The old truth from the British era of big game hunting, that slow but heavy and long bullets at moderate speeds of around 2100 - 2300fps, that penetrate really deeply without too fast expansion or no expansion at all, are the best and most reliable medicine for dangerous big game.
 
For example the many otherwise perfectly sound German cartridges never became popular in Africa since the Germans for some reason refused to load them with strong, heavy bullets. Hence the 375 HH and other big game cartridges are again loaded with a lot heavier bullets that travel slowly and penetrate really deep, instead of exploding in the shoulder of the creature that is capable of powderising you before you have had time to catch it up with the next round. The small British 318 Westley Richards that I mentioned was considered as a superb cartridge for anything but dangerous game, only due to the long, heavy and slow bullet it was loaded with. It is even today mentioned in the Swedish hunting magazines.
 
I remember many years ago when the Lapua Mega was new on the market. It was of course marketed as the best bullet ever made. One week I shot a wild boar cleanly through both shoulders. The next week I bombarded a galloping moose with the same bullet several times. The first one took about 2 feet too far back but the next one hit in the middle of the shoulder but failed to drop it on the spot. It fell over shortly afterwards, just 50 meters short of a road with heavy traffic. It would have been nice if it had dropped dead on the road:-))
 
When I investigated it I found that the bullet,  that I expected to break both shoulders of the animal, had exploded in the first shoulder and only pieces of bones had gone into the lungs and bled it to death. I never found a trace of that bullet. Well, it has been improved since then but I am very reluctant to use it again.
 
Well, well....a discussion about dogs might come to an end at last,  but a discussion about hunting ammo will never end. Long after the stars have gone out and the universe has vaporised or been sucked into a black hole you will hear the echo of the only really eternal happening in the former universe, the echo from the handloaders quarrelling about the best combination of bullets, powders, primers and cases!
 
Torsti
Borta Med Vindens Kennel
"Ask not what your dog can do for you.
Ask what you can do for your dog."
www.rospigan.net
rospiganUser is Offline

MH
MH
Posts:372


10/07/2008 5:09 AM  
Someone sent me a private message and I thought it was from the list when I replied. Since many of you on this list are from USA I like to give your country credit for my and many of my friends development as a handloaders by resending my reply to the entire list:
 
 
I have not done much in my life that will be remembered by the mankind but I have at least been a small part of some pioneering work in the Nordic competition shooting. Oddly enough the benchrest shooting was introduced first on the Aland islands, located between Finland and Sweden. It was my home of birth and until I moved my hat to Sweden in 1987. My hat only, I am still a registered citizen of the Aland islands.
 
Sometimes around perhaps 1972, -73, -74 a little group of oddballs on that island started to experiment with benchrest shooting a'la USA. Literature was imported by someone who already had a machine import company as well as bullets, cases and powders. We used a lot of varmint bullets to start with, the match bullets came later. Then we started to import from Sweden when the American Midway got an agent there. Later I learned that the representative for the Midway company actually was a Swedish marine engineer that I had sailed with on a Swedish super-tanker in 1972. He left the sea and developed the company until some years ago. He has now sold it to younger powers. www.midwaysweden.com  Another marine engineer from the Aland islands is a well known barrel fitter of benchrest barrels in the Nordic countries. He has fitted the barrels on my and Maud's gun and when there are results published from benchrest competitions in the Nordic countries his name is often mentioned as the barrel fitter/gunsmith. He also do some amazing shooting.
 
 In those days I sailed a lot to the USA and I bought both literature and reloading tools. I still use all of them, later I have only bought some dies and other small stuff as a complement. Other guys that were much more serious than me with developing their equipment and skill soon started to spread the sport to Finland and Sweden and it grew slowly but surely. Several guns from our "old" gang became very skilful and soon reached world class. A couple of years ago they even shot at the world championship in the USA and came 26:th in some of the branches. This guy has earlier won the worldchampionship held in Austria or was it Italy? Whatever, if you know how to search the benchrest shooters archieves his name is Sune Abrahamsson. Interestingly one of the barrels competing in the USA WCH competition was originally imported to Finland by me. It was a 6mm super selected Hart barrel that I had fitted on a TIKKA action but they never liked each other. I sold the gun and the new owner fitted it to some custom action made in Finland and now it showed its full potential.
 
It was easy to order reloading stuff from the very honest American companies and stores. We just put the dollars and a letter in an envelope, or later gave our credit card number in the letter, and sooner or later we got what we had ordered. Once I was into a huge gun store in (or somewhere near) New Orleans and asked them if they ship stuff to Finland. They said that they ship anywhere and that they had almost daily deliveries around the world. Handloading became very popular and since many years back you can buy the most popular selection of American bullets over the desk in most gun/sporting stores.
 
I have used the different Nosler bullets now and then for many decades. Mostly varmint or match bullets in a 22-250 to shoot paper and also a lot of sea-fowl like eider duck and white winged scooter and longtailed duck swimming in the sea, out of reach of a shotgun. I killed them with head and neck shots at distances up to and over 100 meters. The gun was a SAKO varminter and the bullets some match bullets from Nosler, Sierra and Speer. Sometimes I missed and hit the body but that bird was not much good for the plate after such a hit.
 
In my 30-06 the Nosler Partition gives amazing accuracy but since the bullet is already so  proven, and indeed one of the very first so called premium bullets, it is not very exciting anymore. I like to try something new and less proven now and then. Two years ago I tried the Nosler Accubond but my gun did not like it at all. That's a pity since I think that in the right gun it is a very good bullet. Right now I have both Maud's 243W and my 30-06 loaded with the Nosler Ballistic Tip. They give good accuracy and have great ballistic properties and drop the animals on the spot, but they destroy a bit too much meat. So when we have finished them we will go for the really heavy stuff and see if it can give us the ultimate salvation :-))))) If a handloader can be blessed for longer than half a day it would be a true miracle!
 
If you go to www.norma.cc and www.sako.fi you will find that both of them use Nosler bullets in many of their factory cartridges. SAKO call them "Twinhead" and "Arrowhead" and Norma uses their real name.
 
You may notice from my eager writing that I am alone in the house and need someone to communicate with. Well, not for that long now. Thursday night someone will come buy and drop of 3 Irish setters and Saturday night Maud and Briz will come home. I will then have my mouth full of dogs to communicate with for awhile :-)))
 
Torsti
Borta Med Vindens Kennel
"Ask not what your dog can do for you.
Ask what you can do for your dog."
www.rospigan.net
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