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jmurr

MH
Posts:158

09/29/2008 6:36 PM
Methinks you have generated a definition of FAB all your own. Nothing wrong with that, but this one seems to require some interference with the dog by the handler. FWIW the pointers I hunted over as a youngster never acknowleged the handlers presence in any way - the pointed and held point until released. Those V=-dogs may be different as may be PLs which barely point IME. Jere > Jere Murray wrote: >> So, point in your dogs is not a fixed action pattern or innate motor >> pattern? >> Rather - it is some trained behavior triggered by what? The act of certainly >> fixing >> the location of game would be the presumptive natural trigger. And then >> terminated >> by the fact of your passage by the dog? - certainly not an innate behavior. >> >> Jere >> >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> > > Pointing is most certainly a fixed action pattern and properly continues > until contact between the pack leader (handler) and the dog is > accomplished. At this transfer of control the handler (pack leader) > determines the subsequent behavior of the subordinate member of the > pack. In most situations the handler is indeed the pack leader and the > termination of intense pointing can be said to be the moment at which > the dog acknowledges the hunter's arrival at the dog's location. With > dogs that have a strong pointing instinct, or are holding multiple > birds, that acknowledgment is often transient and the dog will return to > the point after the handler arrives. The dog's behavior at this time is > determined by the behaviors of the pack leader and the birds and thus > becomes a variable. In many cases the dog's behavior after > acknowledgment of the handler is steadiness rather than a continuation > of the point, the dog will not point but will be intent on the location > of the bird and the dog's body language will shift from rigid intensity > to alert interest. > > The accepted view of pointing is that it ends in a technical sense as > soon as the dog acknowledges the handler's arrival by a shift in its > body language. In my view this acknowledgment usually marks the > transition from pointing to steadiness. Dogs that retain their rigid > intensity after the arrival of the handler are still pointing and for > many handlers this is the ideal point. With experience an individual > can recognize in an instant if the dog is still pointing or is in a > state of steadiness. In my own case I have learned to distinguish > between pointing and steadiness by sound, if the dog doesn't move at all > when I pass it the dog is still pointing or is extremely alert, if there > are sounds that show the dog is moving with me it is being steady. > > If the handler is not the dog's pack leader the transition from pointing > to steadiness or to a break is enormously variable. If the dog contests > the pack leader position with the handler it will often break and take > out the bird before the handler can pass it. Oddly enough many > versatiles will hold the point and go into steadiness if a stranger > walks past it but will break and flush if the owner tries to walk past > it. This situation has nothing to do with the reaction (the fixed > action pattern) in response to the bird, it has everything to do with a > distorted relationship between the dog and the handler. The cure for > this kind of lack of steadiness is to correct the pack status between > the dog and handler and cannot be repaired in the presence of a bird. > > Questions? (there should be some) > > Cj >

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