We had our chapter NAVHDA test this past Saturday, and I witnessed something that is a bit unethical and down right cheating.

A guy that has been a friend of mine for a while was in the running order just in front of me. He had made a few comments earlier in the day that if he could get his pup through the water test  (NA test) he would be ok.

He said that he had been struggling with the pup and it did not like water and would only go in about 30% of the time. Well the time came for the water test and I say him pull a hot dog out and started rubbing it on his hands. I made the comment, what are you going to do, chum the water?

He thought that it was a joke.

Needless to say, I did not feel comfortable following him in the running order for fear of picking the bumper that he had rubbed hot dog all over.

Not only did his actions create possible cheating suspicions of everyone that followed, but it was just plain cheating.

I really lost a lot of respect for this guy on Saturday.

So the question is, what would you do? Would you say anything to the guy or report it to anyone?

What is really unfortunate is the pup was not his, he was the trainer and the handler for the test. The owners of the pup were at the test but I don't think that they are aware of this.

The handler also made the comment that he had not fed the pup in  2 days, so this pup probably swam out of starvation. I do realize that it is common place for a dog to not be fed the morning of the test. I also do the same thing with my dogs in order to avoid twisted gut.

What would you do??????????

So the question is, what would you do? Would you say anything to the guy or report it to anyone?

Well, ya just did.

How did his dog do in the water? I have a hard time believing that hot dog smell on a bumper is going to get a pup in the water that truely doesn't like the water, especially the second time, or third time if it is needed.

I do not see the big deal.  I am sure there is no rule against it, is there?  What is the difference in going in after a bumper, and a bumper that smells good?  I never really cared if my dog swam for a bumper or not,  just so they would go in after a bird. I used to show dogs in Obedience where they had to pick the article out of several that had your hand scent on it. I used to use weenies all the time to scent my hands.     So you would not breed to a dog that goes in the water for a scented dummy?  Now, if you gotta rub weenie scent on a bird, that would be bad. I do not believe in withholding feed on a dog for any reason tho.

woops

 First off if these people whom think they need to cheet to pass a dog would spend as much time exposing there pups as they do thinking of ways to slide one by the judges, they wouldn't have to bait the bumpers.

  However I would like to get a third party to see what you saw and then , present a what if to the field marshall at said test. The second person is nice when the you said they said starts. The test marshall would be the best witness. 

I have heard of some whom ff there pups to asure they will swim. Also broke steady to shot so pup wouldn't not come back after the flush. Good judges will see threw this trickery however . Test records are available to the public. I would never by a pup based only apon a test record. When you see a pup get a prize one on say Sat. and UT test on Sunday think about it .

 Don't get hung up on these test results to much. These  NA tests are indicators not gaurentees.

 In your case Hogan I am glade to hear it didn't mess your pup up in the test.!!!!

                     Randy

I guess the consenses here is it was wrong. Interesting, guess I don't know much about NAVHDA.  

I have found this dicussion very interesting even though I do not hunt with my GSPs.  I do compete in obedience which requires a retrieve on a flat surface and over a jump (no water).  So, I want my GSPs to retrieve anything and have never had a problem whether it is a stick, a bumper, or something else.  As a person who grew up around water, I also want my dogs to be strong swimmers.  And again I have never had problems getting them excited at a very early age about swimming.  Maybe I have just been lucky with my three GSPs, but it seems to me that maybe this guy just hasn't put in quality training time with his dog and/or was very afraid of loosing.  In either case I blame the owner/trainer/handler, not the poor dog.  I do realize there are some dogs that like water better than others, and I have owned a few of them over my life.  But honestly, with allot of patience and positive training, I have always been able to get the dog to go willingly into the water on a retrieve (even my greyhounds would retrieve in water), and enjoy it too.  I understand that this test is about ability though, but do you (or are you supposed to) do any kind of training for it prior to testing?  I guess I need to go read the rules.  Thank you all though for the interesting discourse.