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Subject: Re: [working-gundog] dog training retrieve
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rospiganUser is Offline

MH
MH
Posts:372


08/21/2008 2:22 PM  
>> He is now two and a
> quarter years old, and this problem has arisen with the classes since April
> which are now ending until next year. When younger he could be like this in
> the garden, but by ignoring him, shutting him out and not playing the game
> it stopped.  I cannot do this in classes as it spoils it for the other
> people.
>
> Sonia
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>  

I suspect that the problem is competition between you and the other dog
handlers.  You are too self-conscious and not at all relaxed.  The dog
cannot interpret this tension in your body language and so refuses the
delivery.  If I were working with a larger animal that was nervous I
wouldn't want to approach too closely either... think of it from dog's
viewpoint.  Relax, don't sag or lower your shoulders, don't stare at
your dog, look ten centimeters to the left of the dog's face if you must
face the dog.  If all else fails turn 90 degrees and present your side
to the approaching dog.  The problem isn't the dog, it's your body language.
Cj>>>
 
----------------------
 
I use to compare the "over training" of a dog to the "over training" a skilful actor does. When you look at a good actors performance on the stage and admire his or her skills in acting you still see very little of what this actor really can do. What the great actor does is more than enough to play the character intended for the role but will still not show more than 10 or 20% of the skills that are there as a "reserve". The purpose of the reserve skill is to make the great actor secure and calm about her or his ability to play this particular role or any other role for that matter. They do not train just to the limit of possibly make one good performance if they are lucky one shiny day but they train so that they can play any role in any weather and under any circumstances. That's what is the difference between the great actor and the B-actor.
 
One who is not really sure about ones dogs ability to perform a task in public will become nervous. The answer is of course to train the dog to do much more than the public (spectators/judges/field servants) could possibly ask for. If you know that your dog is capable of much more than anyone can possibly ask for (and this "asking for" is strictly regulated in the field trial rules so you don't have to worry about someone asking the dog to take down the moon for them), then you can relax under even difficult conditions.
 
This may not solve your problem unless you can find a trainer who can help you to go further from where you are now. We use to have a retriever or two in each obedience class and all of their owners say that they can retrieve. When we put down, not throw, a dummy a meter or two in front of the dog and ask the handler to command the dog to bring it to them they without exception, so far, have failed! The dog suddenly do not seem to understand the command at all.
 
They have trained their dog to retrieve by stimulating the dogs prey drive by throwing the dummy to them. Nothing wrong with that to start with but at some stage the command "fetch" must be given another meaning since this kind of training trains the dog to "chase", not to "fetch". "Fetch" must mean "go search and pick up any object with the handlers scent on it, or some other scent that the handler has earlier shown that he is interested in" (dogs will learn this very fast and combine different objects to different situations like training= dummy, hunting or trial=game) even if the dog has not seen it in advance moving in flight or rolling.
 
My late Springer was once with Maud up in the mountains to hunt grouse. They wingshot an old cock grouse in cover of dwarf birch over some pointing dog and sent it to fecth. It worked and worked and could not find the bird. Then Maud sent Springer. She also worked and worked and after a long search she finally came back with an empty shotgun shell in her mouth! The shell was left by some hunting party the day before and at least there was some human scent on it! Springer might have thought that "if I cant find the bird, maybe this was what they were looking for!" I still get a tear in my eye when I think about this :-))
 
The spaniel/retriever trainers too often trust the British gundogs inherited "will to please" and count on time to condition the dog to finally learn to do the entire cycle in a proper way. Often that is good enough if the handler is skilful, patient, positive and self-confident enough to laugh at any failure that is bound to come along the road. Those handlers who are not constituted that way will however become uncertain and more and more nervous with each failure until they are, like Cj mentions, tensed up enough to affect the dog in a negative way. This results in still another failure and still another nervous breakdown for the handler. We are in a bad circle that might be difficult to break since the average trainer of spaniels/retrievers who is supposed to help you do not understand that such people must train their dogs in a different, more tiresome way. I was one of the nervous ones and had to learn to do things differently. Today I would need a puppy to know if I still am. However once you know your handicap and can adjust the training to it, then you will get a better that average delivery to hand.
 
Torsti

Borta Med Vindens Kennel
"Ask not what your dog can do for you.
Ask what you can do for your dog."
www.rospigan.net
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