Tuesday, June 18, 2013
Subject: [working-gundog] howling
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08/09/2008 9:20 PM
I have a question. Occasionally, I have a chance to read messages and find this a great list--it doesn't happen often enough. I was just looking at the photos about wolf behavior and thought about this. I have a question, perhaps someone knows the answer. I've always guessed at the answer. What do you think? I have a 10yo GSP. Katie is a great girl. Occasionally, when I think she's excited about something, she'll let out a howl and just have a good whooping of a hollar for a few minutes. To me, it means that something has excited her and that the long wait is over. It's not a hollar for the other 2 companions to come. It just seems to be almost a relief and excited exclamation for something that is happening. Would anyone on the list venture a guess of what she's doing? Has anyone experienced this in their own "pack"??? Phyllis, RB, Flash!, Katie in Mesa, AZ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To my limited knowledge howling in both wolves and dogs comprises three separate messages although I have no knowledge of which is which. One howl is "Let's get together", another is "This is our (my) territory, go away" The third is "I am here, where are you?" Your howl might be related to the second one although that is just a wild guess. One of my Drahthaars will give a short loud bark/howl when she starts on the track of a rabbit or a raccoon, after that she is just spurlaut at a high pitch. My other Drahthaar is stumm (silent) when tracking fur and feathers. Cj
08/10/2008 1:19 PM
Where does "baying at the moon" fit into your three? Some groups of dogs (and coyotes) will typically engage in an evening, or even late night, chorous - even when all members of the group are present. I suspect dogs might "howl" to express joy or loneliness - though the later could be cast as a "where are you?" Jere > > To my limited knowledge howling in both wolves and dogs comprises three separate > messages although I have no knowledge of which is which. One howl is "Let's get > together", another is "This is our (my) territory, go away" The third is "I am > here, where are you?" ..> Cj > >
08/10/2008 6:50 PM
Jere Murray wrote: > Where does "baying at the moon" fit into your three? Some groups of dogs (and > coyotes) will typically engage in an evening, or even late night, chorous - even > when all members of the group are present. > > I suspect dogs might "howl" to express joy or loneliness - though the later could > be cast as a "where are you?" > > Jere > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I don't know if baying at the moon is real or something dreamed up by Hollywood. Years ago when we had more than a few coyote packs in this part of the continent I used to hear competing howling matches that would trigger my dogs to proclaim their own territory. Most of these joint choral howls were of the: "this is our territory, go away" kind. Then they would have yap fests which my dogs never answered. The coyote yap fests were early evening events and may well have been "let's get together" choruses since they would be on different ridges for the yapping and then later in the evening they would have the howling "this is our territory" together songfests. I don't know much about howling but I have the sneaky feeling that coyotes have a greater repertoire than wolves and both are musically superior to dogs. I have heard my dogs yowl to passing sirens but have never heard coyotes give in to the urge. A small pack of dogs (3) will yowl together but most of our coyotes in small packs won't howl at all. Solitary coyote howling may occur in the West but doesn't seem to happen here in the East. Vixen foxes will single-screech occasionally but I've never heard a dog fox make any sound. I have no real idea what the howling rules might be for any canid species although it's easy to trigger it in wolf and coyote pups... (never tried it with dogs). Cj
08/11/2008 12:29 AM
You need to live near a yard of sled dogs for a while to sort it out. The beagles I had long ago would howl along with me. We just had a good time "howling" for no reason at all aside from I started it. They howled at (to?) the music from the piano when my dad played too. I have tried to get the Labs. to howl with me, but they don't seem to have it in 'em. They appear to "think" I've lost my senses. Of course, they're very correct, but what else is an old man to do? Proving the dog "thinking" thing is pretty difficult. Dog's don't necessarily react consistently to situations which may manifest in apparent "thought out" behavior the same way on each encounter - just as humans don't. I think I read somewhere where your friend Bailey wrote of an example or more where he felt a dog was displaying mental activity that could be called thought.. A couple of months ago my black dog did something which seemed motivated by thought and pre-planning. All winter Sandy was in Anchorage watching grandkids when parents were disabled with medical issues. I feed the dogs twice a day, each in separate places in the house. I never pick up the bowls - rather I send the black dog for the bowls one at a time when it is time for the next meal. (He knows his bowl from Tucker's bowl - but that isn't part of the story.) When Sandy came back home in May, she began picking up the bowls after each feeding and taking them to the food storage area. One night she and I were on the couch. The dogs usually spend the night on this couch. There was no room for a dog on the couch with us there and the easy chair they use in lieu was piled high with some junk of mine. The bowls had not yet been picked up after the evening feeding. The black dog got up from where he was lying on the floor, went and found his bowl, brought it to the living room, walked right past me and presented it to Sandy. She took it from him and got up and took it to the food storage area. She had no sooner vacated the couch than he jumped up and curled up tight and watched her leave and return. I had the distinct impression he did all this to get her out of "his" spot on the couch and he expected to be shooed away when she returned. She used the rocking chair instead. I've tried to set this up a few times since - but he has not repeated. Frequently I see one or the other dog encounter some terrain or man created obstical I feel they have never seen before, look around as though measuring their options and then choose the clearly best path to navigate through. Could they be thinking? Maybe not. Jere > > I don't know if baying at the moon is real or something dreamed up by > Hollywood. ... I have no real idea what the howling rules might be for > any canid species although it's easy to trigger it in wolf and coyote > pups... (never tried it with dogs). > Cj >
08/11/2008 5:32 AM
My dogs howl at least several times a week. I've got no sure idea of why? Water spaniels are probably more primative than most dogs - having alledgly decended from indian dogs. best, bill koob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jere Murray"
Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2008 2:06 PM Subject: Re: [working-gundog] howling > Where does "baying at the moon" fit into your three? Some grouphas of dogs (and > coyotes) will typically engage in an evening, or even late night, chorous - even > when all members of the group are present. > > I suspect dogs might "howl" to express joy or loneliness - though the later could > be cast as a "where are you?" > > Jere > > > > > > To my limited knowledge howling in both wolves and dogs comprises three separate > > messages although I have no knowledge of which is which. One howl is "Let's get > > together", another is "This is our (my) territory, go away" The third is "I am > > here, where are you?" ..> Cj > > > > > > >
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