GSP_Brooklyn
Posts:5

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| 02/05/2013 11:27 AM |
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Hello everyone, I am new to this site as well as being a new GSP owner. I have a 4 1/2 month old and she has been doing really well with her training. My wife and I are currently taking her to obedience training however we can not seem to break her of jumping up on counters and sniffing around. We have been told a couple of different methods to cure this bad habit but none seem to be working. We have tried sneaking up behind her when she is doing this and grabbing her by the nape of the neck and giving her a little shake, we have also tried filling a bottle with coins and nocking it off the counter when she jumps up. None of these methods have worked though. I don't want her to be timid of loud noises since I plan on hunting her, does anyone have any suggestions on what else we could try? We were told also to use a squirt gun and hit her with that but then that makes a mess for us to clean up. I thought of using an air horn but there again I don't want to make her timid around loud noises. Any suggestions are welcome. |
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RyanGSP
 MH Posts:446

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| 02/05/2013 12:42 PM |
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Mouse traps all over the counter would cure that right quick. If it were my dog it would be getting a good licking on her butt. |
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Texas Belle Austin, TX
 MH Posts:7921


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| 02/05/2013 1:31 PM |
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| Remove the temptations, and don't leave anything edible up there. GSPs are opportunistic and if there is something tempting, they will go for it. |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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Splat Illinois (Northern)
 MH Posts:3154


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| 02/06/2013 6:30 AM |
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| With all my pups when teaching what is wrong I always used a very loud "AH-AH!" but like it was said above don't leave tempting food out... |
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smatulewicz Michigan
 MH Posts:1216


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| 02/06/2013 6:48 AM |
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| I haven't had counter surfing issues, but we did do the coin thing in an empty soda can. I used it for when Bella was over pestering the cat or attempted to chase after him when would flee since squirt bottles made her run exuberant zoomies because she LOVES water. I shook it and she was so intrigued by what in the world the sound was that she would leave whatever she was doing to see. If fizzled quickly though as it didn't teach NOT to do what she was doing, simply diverted her attention and made her stop. A fog horn would seem over extreme. I know it sounds simplistic, but if I had that issue I think I would do what has been mentioned and remove any temptation (gate off the kitchen while cooking if you must so she cannot be in there until things are clean). Your best best is to "Ah Ah" her when you see the first sign of her planning in her head to jump. If you bust her already there, I would simply "ah ah" and gently remove her back to the floor. I say this because more drastic measures aren't working, and I'd water that anything that catches her too off guard could send her into a panic and she could ultimately hurt herself if she is already atop the counter. |
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smatulewicz Michigan
 MH Posts:1216


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| 02/06/2013 6:50 AM |
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| For training purposes, you could also strategically put something tempting on the counter making sure she sees it. Tell her "leave it". Stay in the kitchen with her watching and ready to "ah ah" at the sight of her planning. When she doesn't jump and looks back to you in response to the "ah ah"...reward her. |
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DuckFever Central Oregon
 MH Posts:330


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| 02/06/2013 8:11 AM |
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My 10-month-old did it sometimes and when he was really going through his bad phase he would wear the shock collar around the house and every time I caught him in the trash or on the counter I would zap him. Stopped the problem pretty quick. |
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The worst day of hunting is better than the best day at work. |
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GSP_Brooklyn
Posts:5

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| 02/06/2013 10:13 AM |
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| I was also thinking of getting a shock collar for her but I think 4 1/2 months old is too young to use one. Does anyone else have any thoughts on what age a shock collar would be appropriate for a GSP? |
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GSP_Brooklyn
Posts:5

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| 02/06/2013 10:13 AM |
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| I was also thinking of getting a shock collar for her but I think 4 1/2 months old is too young to use one. Does anyone else have any thoughts on what age a shock collar would be appropriate for a GSP? |
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smatulewicz Michigan
 MH Posts:1216


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| 02/06/2013 11:41 AM |
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Far too young. Shock and E collars "should" be used to reinforce what a dog already knows. That's Why I suggested strategically training not to jump on the counter. It would take time and patience, but there really is no quick fix to dog behavioral issues. Using a shock collar on a pup, IMO, would do more harm than good, and possibly cause more bad behavior and confusion. It might also ruin the effectiveness of an ecollar once you do begin hunting. Granted, I don't use them and haven't had to...but there have been many threads about appropriate age (I think I inquired once as we considered using one to reinforce yard boundaries rather than an underground fence) and the typical answer was not prior to a 10-12 months of age.
I know placing tin foil where you don't want them jumping works for cats. |
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Splat Illinois (Northern)
 MH Posts:3154


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| 02/06/2013 1:18 PM |
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| yeah e-collars are for dogs about 1 year old and they are to re-enforce what the dog already has been taught... |
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Texas Belle Austin, TX
 MH Posts:7921


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| 02/06/2013 2:25 PM |
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As others have stated you must first train the dog so they understand what they are supposed to do and will know how to turn off the stimulation. Depending on the shorthair using high stimulation to break counter surfing is a bit extreme and might not even work. That method is most often used in snake breaking. I haven't used the collar on my male who loves to shop the counters, but I don't think it would work anyway as he is so food motivated and I personally do not want to change that as it is a great benefit in training. So I opt for removing the edible stuff from the counters. Works just as well as he gets no reward when he goes shopping and eventually the behavior has faded. Of course it comes right back if he smells something yummy, so keeping the counters clean is probably a forever thing. That to is ok because I hate cluttered kitchen counters. I have only once used an ecollar prior to dogs being 1 year old and that was on my second oldest when I had her snake trained at 9 months. She is also the only one that I have had to repeat the snake training on. Not sure it had to do with age, but I still now wait until my dogs are a year or older even for snake training. Any other type of ecollor training, in my opinion requires longer for the dog to really understand what you are asking, so ecollars are pretty much useless anyway. |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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marisl BC, Canada
 SH Posts:49


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| 02/08/2013 2:30 AM |
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I'll echo all the advice above. We had huge issues with our boy counter surfing right from the start (we got our puppy at 4 months) - he would be up with his front paws on kitchen counters sniffing around all the time (or so it seemed). We did two things: made sure that there is nothing edible left on the counters, and when he did counter surf, we'd tell firmly NO and nudge him off the counter every time. A trainer suggested we try the tin foil method - layer the counter edges with tin foil- but it was no barrier for our counter surfer. We thought the problem would never go away, but now, at 9 months, he rarely counter surfs, maybe once a week if even that, and he is allowed to come to the kitchen even when we cook (his water bowl is there). So our experience too is that it's just patience, being consistent with the NO, and not leaving out temptations. |
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High5Hanna
 MH Posts:116


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| 02/09/2013 9:38 PM |
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I might give the mouse traps a try. I just wouldn't want them to hurt her toes or her nose. I have a shock collar I have yet to use. I agree its best to wait til they are at least a year. I try to be vigilant about keeping things put up or away. Answering a land line phone or the door sets me up for my dinner to dissapear. |
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DuckFever Central Oregon
 MH Posts:330


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| 02/10/2013 1:10 PM |
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As long as the dog has already been taught what to do and knows what you want, I see no issue with using a shock collar before a year. I had Rowdy in a shock collar hunting at 7 months, responding the the "page" as well as "nick" and "continuous" immediately. You just have to be careful about overdoing it on the shock collar. You can definitely mess a dog up if you don't do it right, but I disagree that a dog should be 10 or 12 months before using a collar. It all depends on the dog and their personality. |
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The worst day of hunting is better than the best day at work. |
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RyanGSP
 MH Posts:446

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| 02/10/2013 1:19 PM |
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Though its not so much worry now, the weight of a shock collar can really do a number on a dogs neck. A dog under a year doesnt need a shock collar, thats the time they should still be messing around and making mistakes.... Learning not being corrected. |
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DuckFever Central Oregon
 MH Posts:330


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| 02/10/2013 5:46 PM |
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Agree to disagree. I still would say that it depends on the dog. So a "licking on the butt" is somehow not as bad as a nick from a shock collar to a young dog? Care to enlighten me? Seems like if anything laying your hands on your dog is worse, because that can create hand shyness and other issues. |
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The worst day of hunting is better than the best day at work. |
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RyanGSP
 MH Posts:446

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| 02/10/2013 8:44 PM |
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I licking for counter surfing isnt going to create hand shyness. Your comparing apples to oranges. |
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Texas Belle Austin, TX
 MH Posts:7921


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| 02/10/2013 10:34 PM |
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I never hit my dogs period. It is unnecessary. There are a multitude of ways to fix a problem besides hitting them. You just need to be smarter than the dog and creative. That said I have been known to really raise my voice and scare the pee out them. I save those moments though when I really want to get their attention and make an impression. The voice thing works for me as I rarely raise a voice at them and I also couple that with some growling, etc. usually works and I rarely need to repeat. High5Hanna - you can accomplish the same thing with some empty soda cans that you are doing with a mouse trap. It is the startle that is the correction and the fact that you are know where around. So the fact that they counter surf causes something scary to happen. Mouse traps shouldn't hurt her, but if you really are worried try stacking some empty coke cans in a triangle at the edge of the counter just out of her sight. When she puts her nose or feet up on the counter and bumps the cans they will fall all over and hopefully scare her. However she might find the cans fun and then that won't work. Anyway you get he idea. Just find something that will coincide with her putting feet or nose on the counter and will startle/scare her. |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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Splat Illinois (Northern)
 MH Posts:3154


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| 02/11/2013 6:43 AM |
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I think the 12 month age for e-collars is more of a guide... it depends ont he dog and what it knows... I have never had to "hit" my dogs..maybe if they are walking in front of me being a pain I might swat their butt and tell them to get out of the way, but I do that to my kids too lol! My voice is my correction... I have a very strong voice even my kids know when I mean business just by my voice... Like texas belle said I can scare the pee out of them just with my voice if I wanted to... |
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