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zodiakgsps
NW PA
MH
Posts:1059
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| 01/23/2011 1:26 PM |
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I breed for show and field, compete fairly succesfully in both also, field being field trials and hunt tests. I have sold pups into pet, non-hunting homes with no issues & will do so again if I feel it is a good fit! Taras' sister was sold to a family that wanted a very stable pet, they have a severely autistic son (who is 16) and didn't want to deal with the health issues of a Golden, but needed a stable, bigger dog. They could not be happier with her. I have also sold 2 pups into a home with a downs syndrome child. People see my dogs at my grooming shop & love their calm demeanors. (all my guys go to work daily & have full run of my grooming shop & lay quietly all day there)
Pet homes can work out perfectly fine if you have the right dogs for them. The second buyer who has 2 of mine is now into trialing, he has a brother to my Tara & a sister to my Jess, both competing well in field trials, mind you, he knew nothing about these until a short time ago when I dragged him to one - his male took 4th last fall in hs very first trial in an AA stake! (at 4 yrs old)
So you can educate/interest some into hunting/competing as Raven was & if the others are just great homes, I am happy also! (btw, congrats Raven, very nice!) |
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4449
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| 01/23/2011 3:50 PM |
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So you need not do any research on a DK breeder you just grab a pup from any DK breeders litter and they are all the same ?
hmmm I am NOT BUYING the stuff your selling on that one ...
I personally like a little diversification, you can find what ya want and bring into a breeding or you can leave stuff out ..
its fairly easy within our system to find what ya want or find what ya want to stay away from depending on what ya use your dogs for or wish to use them for..
Apparrently you have found the perfect GSP for you pixie and they happen to fall into the DK catagory of style or type , thats great for you , but you need not feel the need to attempt to convert us AKC dog owners over to your thinking, if people want that type of system and control over themselves and other breeders they will join your system and leave the AKC dogs behind... Many dogs and breeders in the AKC go above and beyond what the DKV requires for breeding rights of a dog, people can simply only buy from breeders who meet their requirements in the good ole USA or they can choose not to ...its America people have the right in this country to choose their breeder and choose what types of testing a breeding must pass before they buy or dont buy from a breeding ..
I love American made products and we buy American when it is worth while.
If you read my post correctly, I said 99% of the time and I said a buyer would need to do research on their particular like or dislike in style (range,how 'hot',size,etc)
YES, you can just contact any DK breeder and will (99%) get a conformationally correct dog who will be a capable versatile hunter, healthy and sound temp.
I still recommend research and I do a LOT of research before purchasing.
Genetics is not a given and breeders need to be selective.
There are wondeful GSP breeders and if I could participate in DKV testing I would buy from them. I believe that much in the system!
There is enough diversification in select, sound breedings. No need to have a bunch of 'mutts' running around in the name of diversification.
Many of the DK breeders go above and beyond what is required for breeding,as well.
Many people,myself included, do not go further in the system b/c the tests are difficult to attend (the tests are only in the fall) and openings fill up fast.
If one reviews the breeding requirements it becomes clear why the system works.
Not only Americans have choices, people all over europe can decide which breeder to choose.
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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Texas Belle
Austin, TX
MH
Posts:7839
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| 01/23/2011 3:58 PM |
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| These are great dogs for all kinds of situations. The Germans bred for hunting companions and family dogs and that still exists in the breed today. People marvel at how "calm" my dogs are when they see them. I always laugh because it is truly the training and the fact that they see me as their leader and are happy to let me lead. My dogs are couch potatoes when I want them to be, but they are also energetic "balls to the walls" shorthairs too. They have learned how to turn it off and on. I agree with both Raven and Ann whole heartedly and Raven is a perfect example of what I try to encourage in my puppy pet homes. Many people simply do not know what kinds of things are out their to do with their dogs and some are a bit intimidated by the games and think they just couldn't do it. A little encouragement and mentoring and you get new competitors that fall in love with the shorthairs as much as the rest of us. |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
   
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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dylandarling
craryville ny
MH
Posts:75
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| 01/23/2011 6:05 PM |
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| I had a litter of 6..( 1st litter I had, 2nd is next then thats it!!))..1 bitch 5 boys..kept the girl and 1 boy who now I would like to sell because he is not to my standard of a show dog, however he is professionally trained to hunt..anyway..1 puppy went to a guy who owns a winery..the dog goes everywhere with him..and now he is hunting with him..the 2nd went to a family that did alot of research on the breed they thought would FIT into their life style..he now has been prof trained and the husband is hunting him..the 3d also went to a couple who wanted a GSP..now hunts...the 4th went to a couple in LI who take the dog everywhere..he does agility... he is a yuppie puppy LOL...all pet homes and all good homes..I WAS very picky where they went..I promised the stud dog owner I wouldnt let them go to any but great homes...they did..its her puppies too , sort of..I also am still in contact with them all...I will always sell puppies like this..I turned down many!!, fact I had 1 puppy till he was 4mos.. |
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dylandarling
craryville ny
MH
Posts:75
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| 01/23/2011 6:14 PM |
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| and PS..I picked the puppy best suited for each family..and guess what..they are ALL happy with the dogs!!!...most people dont know how to pick a dog..thats why even if the breed is right..the personality may not be...BYB dont care...thats one reason why we see dogs in shelters... |
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tc
MH
Posts:117
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| 01/23/2011 6:14 PM |
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Posted By pixie bee on 01/23/2011 9:11 AM
One distinct difference I see between a system that has breeding requirements and a system that doesn't is that the system with the breeding requirements ,99% of the time, requires the buyer to do reseach to find a dog that can hunt/compete to their likeing.In a system w/o breeding requirements much of the time the buyer is also required to do research to find proper health,temperment and conformation.
There are no backyard breeders in a system with breeding requirements. The system is designed to preserve genotype and phenotype.
Allowing any 2 dogs to breed for sure keeps the breed diversified - but who really has need of all that useless diversification?
I am curious. You said that the DK's are healthy. What health test requirements does the DK program require?
Cones? Hips? Elbows?Eyes? Hearts?
Do they require DNA to verify parentage?
tc
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dylandarling
craryville ny
MH
Posts:75
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| 01/23/2011 6:20 PM |
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| actually..I took each of these people down to my trainer and let them see how the mother worked birds..they are were impressed...they all thought it was cool..never saw that before..maybe thats what also helped them decide to hunt ..Im NOT braggin but my dogs have a natural talent...LOL |
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4449
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| 01/23/2011 7:50 PM |
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The DKV does not require tests other than hips. The reason for this is that what is common in the GSP is not so common in the DK. You hear every so often of a heart issue or and ACL tear but not common enough to say it has over run the breed and measures need to be taken.
The record keeping keeps track of dogs who have issues, their parents and their offspring - if any breedings occured - and careful elimination from the gene pool keeps the bad stuff out. Dogs simply will be stamped unbreedable on the pedigree and no one can breed them within the system.
Nothing in genetics is 100%.
They do not require DNA. I believe this is b/c there is no reason for breeders to lie about parentage. There is a mandatory form/contract for the stud owner to fill out and mail in.It would require several people to pull off a lie.
If anyone was found cheating, they would be thrown out of the DKV. No one wants to be thrown out.
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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dylandarling
craryville ny
MH
Posts:75
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| 01/23/2011 8:39 PM |
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| PIXIE BEE..I have had dachshunds for years.. a FT Ch dog and DC..talk about DQ's.I have 3 double dapples,rescues cant see or hear..a merle/ merle..and one is AKC registered dog..HOW awful!!..so people are breeding PIEBALDS..its not a color that was suppose to be..now we have totally ruined the breed..think AKC now wont let pies be shown....awful!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!so many DD are showing up in rescue |
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briarpatch
N.J.
MH
Posts:168
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| 01/24/2011 12:53 AM |
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I personally admire anyone that puts in the time and dedication to their dogs to pass testing of any kind wether it be AKC Hunt Tests or Show or agility or FT or NAVHDA or DKV testing or UKC testing or CKC or dock dogs or whatever testing no matter what the level of testing or type of testing.. same with health testing There is some health testing I personally find questionable thats it really needed but I personally respect people who do it , it shows a dedication to their dogs and the breed and what they are producing if they are breeders ..
I do personally find it distasteful and a little offensive when people make comments such as these "There is enough diversification in select, sound breedings. No need to have a bunch of 'mutts' running around in the name of diversification". As if to imply all AKC or a lot of registered GSPs are some kinda crossbred mutts , and your type of GSP is a pure bred dog when in fact very very few if any AKC registered GSPs are , most AKC breeders would not crossbreed and if they had an ooops litter most would say just that and give the pups away or sell them very cheap even 99.99% of backyard breeders would do that, have there been some suspicions yes there has, are there a very very few bad apples I am sure there are as well but for the most part any type of breeder is going to make pretty darn sure they are not breeding mutts as implied..
and to Imply your positive it doesnt or never happened in other countrys , because there their system insures it doesnt happen is a crock..Or to imply its happening here on a routine basis is also a crock ..
why do people feel the need to put others dogs down with such false implied statements is beyond me ..
If you have suspicions which obviously you do and your entitled to your suspicions, stay away from breeders or lines you suspect which obviously you have , there is no need to try to belittle them or their dogs or throw false or unproven statements out to the world putting an entire group of breeders into a group of a very very few bad apples ..
I have my suspicions as well of certain lines and i personally avoid certain lines or dogs linage but i dont feel the need to publicly annouce my suspicions with no proof of actual wrong doing because of the possibility of a few bad apples ...suspicions are exactly that suspicions they are NOT FACTS ...
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Just my opinion
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My Pups:
   
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4449
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| 01/24/2011 5:13 AM |
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I do personally find it distasteful and a little offensive when people make comments such as these "There is enough diversification in select, sound breedings. No need to have a bunch of 'mutts' running around in the name of diversification".
I don't know why you feel this way.
You say you are in favor of letting anyone breed any 2 GSPs for the sake of diversifying the breed so any breeder can find the particular gene or characteristic they are seeking and then you get offended when I say there are a number of GSPs that don't fall anywhere near the standard, can't hunt and have health issues,such as poor bites and missing teeth?
I'm not sure, are you defending the backyard breeder? In no breed should a backyard breeder be defended or encouraged to breed. They do a severe disservice to any breed.
Sererious hobby breeders are what does a breed justice along with the experienced,long time breeders.
I am referring to the DKV and the VDD. There are no backyard breeders in these types of clubs. Did you read my post of what a BYB is? Members of clubs such as these fall into the Serious Hobby Breeder category. As for what goes on in europe/ the FCI , the UK- I am sure there are just as many BYBs there that there are here or anywhere else in the world.
Suspicions? You think I am making statements based on suspicions? Take a look around at any breed. Did you hear how Crufts has established a team of select vets to examine ALL the dogs and disqualify them if necessary?
AT CRUFTS!!!!
Don't be offended by me. Be offended by breeders who make my statements true.
dylandarling,
if DD are showing up in rescue this is the breeders fault for not matching the dog with the family along with supply and demand issues. Many people don't know how 'hot' these dogs are. The breeders should be taking them back. What is the reason the breeders are not taking them back?
When a DK needs to leave a home and I am aware of it - I am the first one to jump on board and offer to take the dog. I have not seen 1 DK breeder not take a dog back. It is the breeders responsibility.
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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briarpatch
N.J.
MH
Posts:168
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4449
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| 01/24/2011 7:28 AM |
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Can you explain - who did I put down, who did I lump?
I have not made any false or implied statements.
Please give facts.
Tell me- did you research your breeders and litters before you bought?Or did you just pick up the newpaper and pick any pup from those quality litters of GSPs?
You are going on spouting how everyone should have free choice and everyone produces something of quality. Well, why so picky on your purchasing choices?
Don't even begin to tell me people are not producing purebred "mutts". You say you are more worried about puppy mills - I agree, but that doesn't condone the BYB. They are one step away from puppy mill, minus the quantity. When it comes to breed preservation and improvement there is no room for the BYB. We all have choices - why breed Sally to Butch if they are not prime specimens of the breed?
Because they want a puppy just like good 'ol Butch,or it would be great for the kids to watch a litter of pups be born, or we could make a few dollars. These people don't care what breed they own - they just happen to own GSPs, they know nothing about what a prime specimen looks like,behaves like are hunts like and they don't even begin to understand health issues or conformation in their breed of choice.
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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trueblushorthairs
MH
Posts:129
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| 01/24/2011 8:13 AM |
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I was at a trial this weekend and boy has this thread gone all over the place. What I can say is that it is absolutely ridiculous to generalize field trial dogs into the "hot" category. I have only bred right at 50 puppies. But, 90% of them are house dogs full time. My dogs are from nothing but FC AFC NFC and National AF Champion lineage. I own four shorthairs. Each is from this so-called HOT breeding. All 4 are house dogs and I've had people ask if two of them are alive when these people come in the house. Please don't generalize it only makes people potentially believe your incorrect assumptions.
Second, the reality is that most buyers are clueless. Most saw Westminster and think they want a shorthair. You ask them if they hunt, NO, do they trial, WHAT'S THAT?, do you run, walk, something? NAH, we just want a house dog. Certainly the average shorthair is not gonna just lie around like old Duke on the Beverly Hillbillies. Buyers need to educate themselves first, particularly in this day and age of the internet. 20 years ago you had to rely on word of mouth. Now, you can find John Rabidou, Keith Gulledge, Terry Chandler, and hundreds more well respected experienced breeders. At the same time, you can find these idiots who buy a couple of decently bred dogs and go to breeding. We have a family in our local club. Bought a couple of nicely bred pups. Now, they're breeders. they have a decent website. I called them one day and asked the lady, does your husband hunt your dogs? She said, "no, he has put the dogs on a few quail here in the yard before though". I hung up!! ALL buyers need to educate themselves and HANG UP!! |
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briarpatch
N.J.
MH
Posts:168
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| 01/24/2011 9:32 AM |
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do personally find it distasteful and a little offensive when people make comments such as these "There is enough diversification in select, sound breedings. No need to have a bunch of 'mutts' running around in the name of diversification". As if to imply all AKC or a lot of registered GSPs are some kinda crossbred mutts , and your type of GSP is a pure bred dog when in fact very very few if any AKC registered GSPs are , most AKC breeders would not crossbreed and if they had an ooops litter most would say just that and give the pups away or sell them very cheap even 99.99% of backyard breeders would do that, have there been some suspicions yes there has, are there a very very few bad apples I am sure there are as well but for the most part any type of breeder is going to make pretty darn sure they are not breeding mutts as implied..
and to Imply your positive it doesnt or never happened in other countrys , because there their system insures it doesnt happen is a crock..Or to imply its happening here on a routine basis is also a crock ..
I believe covered one of your implied statements right there ...
others have made some implied statements as well you see that a lot of that on these forums and dogs grouped in with a certain type or style of dog by people because of some they have encountered from that group when in reality they have no clue if every dog from that particular group has those particular traits , appparently i would ASSuME it makes them feel better about their type or style of shorhair or it is a defense mechinism triggered by thinking what they are doing is the greatest good for the shorthair and what everyone else does who is not into their particular niche are doing the breed an injustice .. I honestly dont know why people feels the need to do that ..
I personally am sure your dogs are much better than mine in some aspects and I also am sure trueblue's are better than mine in some aspects as I am sure Cathy's or Bevs is better than mine in some aspects..
And some of those dogs I am sure I have personal opinions or suspicions about without even seeing them as I have seen dogs from all types of breeders and have a slim suspicion of probably what some of them are like in person, but to throw all breeders who particpate in certain arenas into a group and publicly hint or imply these dogs are all like this is not factual and i feel unfair to other dog owners in that participate in that particular niche or arena whos dogs arent like that..
you are certainly not the only one guilty of doing it many i have seen do it ...
by all means if you have some proof of wrongdoing that a particular breeder has crossbred to a pointer or a lab or whatever , you got pictures of this breeding taking place or you snuck a DNA test that proves parentage or something then let the world know .. But to make or imply to others who are newer to the breed believe your suspicions are fact is just wrong..In my personal opinion
Just as I am sure you dont care for it when someone makes some comment like DKs are big lumbering oafs.. are some Dks big lumbering oafs , maybe does that mean all DKs are big lumbering oafs ..No its not a factual statment but why people feel the need to even make such a statement and attempt to make newer people believe all of a particular group is crappier then there own niche's group I dont know ...but they do it all the time .. |
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My Pups:
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4449
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| 01/24/2011 10:15 AM |
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I do not see how this proves your point.
Are you saying that I did not state fact when I said:
There is enough diversification in select, sound breedings. No need to have a bunch of 'mutts' running around in the name of diversification".
Not EVERY dog in a breed has to be seen in order to make a sound judgement call.
And some of those dogs I am sure I have personal opinions or suspicions about without even seeing them as I have seen dogs from all types of breeders and have a slim suspicion of probably what some of them are like in person, but to throw all breeders who particpate in certain arenas into a group and publicly hint or imply these dogs are all like this is not factual and i feel unfair to other dog owners in that participate in that particular niche or arena whos dogs arent like that..
you are certainly not the only one guilty of doing it many i have seen do it ...
Can you please post proof that I am guilty of this.
truth is - the terms lumbering oaf,run-off, can't hunt - apply to DKs and GSPs.
No breed,dog,club,trainer,venue is the end all.
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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trueblushorthairs
MH
Posts:129
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| 01/24/2011 10:31 AM |
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| I know my dogs are better cuz they are each lumbering no hunt run off hotties!! |
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4449
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| 01/24/2011 10:47 AM |
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Thank you for being so brutally honest.
but you'll also have to prove they are purebred mutts.
I have pedigrees that say mine are. |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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Texas Belle
Austin, TX
MH
Posts:7839
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RyanGSP
MH
Posts:430
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| 01/24/2011 12:25 PM |
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Posted By pixie bee on 01/24/2011 10:47 AM
Thank you for being so brutally honest.
but you'll also have to prove they are purebred mutts.
I have pedigrees that say mine are.
Like you said before this thread got split. Your can fudge a pedigree 
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