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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4448
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| 01/17/2011 11:17 AM |
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Everything I said contradicts your type of hunting. I'm not sure how much of the birddog population hunts off horseback and motorized vehicles.
The DK is a foot hunter's dog. I'm not sure how many miles you and Ryan walk when you foot hunt. If your dog is 1/2 mile + away at all times you are doing a lot of walking to keep up with your dog in a 2-3 hour span. At what distance does a dog become a speck? I don't buy that there are no unproductives and the reason why is twofold - I read about hunting your type of land and the birds from posters on other boards and I read the results at Ames. If there are unproductives and run-offs at Ames it has to be similiar to real life and I don't think the posters are making up stories. I can't believe you have gone to a dog 1/2+ mile away (walk,drive,horse)and have had a bird there each time. Having this happen more than once a hunt or on consecutive hunts would have me keeping that dog closer to ensure flushes under the gun.
Dogs may be 100' dogs b/c that's what the cover and type of hunting require. Experience teaches the dog to stay closer. I can tell you - 100' in heavy woodcock cover can seem like a mile. In my testing system if the dog can not be seen, it can not be judged.
You are correct. I know NOTHING about the birds and style of hunting you do. Does it matter? How experienced are you with mine? No way is better - just different. We each have dogs to produce game and they do just that.
This thread needs to be split - it has nothing to do with rare colors. |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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RyanGSP
MH
Posts:428
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| 01/17/2011 12:25 PM |
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A good dog will always hunt to the front you should never have to walk after a dog.
A half mile is only a 1/4 section of land.... atleast here. Still really easy to see a dog. |
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4448
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| 01/17/2011 1:58 PM |
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I just got a great definition of run from a knowledgable dog person.
And,IMO,DKs are not bred for run.
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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briarpatch
N.J.
MH
Posts:168
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| 01/18/2011 4:23 AM |
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Well we went far from topic , but the questiion is did we learn anything from the interaction, I know I did ..
I learned a new derogatory ment term "porch sweepers" towards a closer working dog and we who own "meat hunters" which litterally translated means a dog that normally finds more meat on most days hence the name , meat =more birds in an area (which isnt all that derogatory to most ) needs cooler Derogatory meant terms towards horse back FT type dogs that apparrently only live or hunt in certain states we could say something like he has one of them darn "nitrous dogs" or thats one of them dang "rocket dogs" we definately need something cooler sounding than thats been mixed with an EP ...LOL ...
Seriously though I did learn a few things during our interaction such as a wicket cant be used to DQ a GSP which apparently even at least one show judge didnt know...
So it was a bit amusing at times and interesting and also learned a thing or two ...
enjoyed the chat
somebody needs to get this back on topic though cant somebody post a pic of their tri colored dog or something ????
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My Pups:
   
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trueblushorthairs
MH
Posts:129
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| 01/18/2011 7:33 AM |
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Once again seems that reading and actually understanding are at a premium. Pixie, first and foremost I have not said a word about my dogs being 1/2 mile away at all times. In reality, when we MEAT hunt, which I do far more than I trial, our dogs are more often than not at more like 200-300 yards and often have to shorten. But, on some large leases they do stretch to 1/2 mile on occasion. Further, you find it hard to believe that the birds are ALWAYS there when we drive 1/2 mile, they aren't. But, 90% of the time they are. A good dog learns to move, to creep, to catwalk, to get birds in a spot where they hold. WILD quail do hold well if they have cover!!! Can't speak for the preserve birds many hunt.
Not real sure why Ames was even brought up. Ames is a very small tract of land with released birds. NOT wild bird hunting in any way. Those grounds are barely gun dog grounds and are certainly not shooting dog or all age grounds.
If a dog can't be seen it can't be judged? It can't? So, the dogs range 50' at all times for however long a test or trial is? Dogs don't go out of sight for 5 minutes and show to the front? They aren't found to the front on point? They just plod along 50' from the hunter? Sounds thrilling!!
My point is, as you have harped on, how do you know anything about where and how we hunt unless you've done it. Spend a few days in the White Mountains or south Texas or western OK and you'll see that 1/4 mile ain't much where we hunt. How many hunt from motorized vehicles, again, drive highway 287 in Texas on any thursday or friday of hunting season, you will see hundreds and hundreds of Mules, Rangers, Jeeps, 4 wheelers, etc. with dog boxes attached. heck no I don't walk 1/4 mile, I let the dogs do the running and then I drive to them on point, or yes, I walk up a side hill or arroyo and go flush birds.
Finally, I don't know about the "birddog population". From what I read most claim to hunt wild bobs in Georgia. So, shows what they know. |
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4448
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| 01/18/2011 9:42 AM |
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I didn't know the National Championship held at Ames with about 6,000 acres was unimportant.
How about the Dixie Plantation? What are their totals for unproductives?
You said a dog can be seen well beyond 300 yards, who said anything about 50'?
Gun range is about 150', a dog can work outside that range if they hold point,don't have unproductives and don't bump or cause flushes (in or out of range)
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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briarpatch
N.J.
MH
Posts:168
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4448
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| 01/18/2011 9:59 AM |
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I'm putting the little apostrophe there. Can't anyone see it?
Anyone shooting a shotgun should know it's range - for safety and performance. |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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trueblushorthairs
MH
Posts:129
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| 01/18/2011 12:40 PM |
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Pixie, I guess this could go on forever, but one quick question, have you been to Ames? Have you even seen the grounds??
What i said, "Not real sure why Ames was even brought up. Ames is a very small tract of land with released birds. NOT wild bird hunting in any way. Those grounds are barely gun dog grounds and are certainly not shooting dog or all age grounds."
Where do you get that I said it was unimportant? What I said and mean is that it has nothing to do with wild bird hunting and that it is a small tract. Actually, there's over 18000 acres, 6000 of which are used for trials, however, the largest percentage of that is trees and very thick brush, with primarily what I consider almost logging trails with edges. The open areas encompass about 5% of what our normal bird lease in west Texas would be. So, the areas that are open enough to run dogs is a small area!! Non-productives on released birds have zero to do with wild bob hunting. How dogs handle pen raised birds, released birds, also has zero to do with wild birds. The difference in an all age or shooting dog in a property like Ames also has zero to do with a shooting dog or all age dog in west Texas or the prairies, and has about the same to do with a "meat" dog in the same places. For the record, if a "meat" dog is considered a dog that puts meat in the fryer, I can tell you this, I own four shorthairs, one is 12, one is 10, another is 4, and a 4 month old pup. The oldest dog has been hunted on wild quail, around 3000 killed over him, my 10 year old female has had over 1000 killed over her, and my 4 year old is way behind with around 125 killed over his points. ALL WILD. Further, my oldest dog has had chukar, pheasants, sharpies, huns, blues, bobs, and chickens killed over him in Arizona, New Mexico, OK, TX, KS, NE, ND, SD, and Idaho. So, I am confident my resume and that of my dogs will hold up well.
Now, again, have you been to Ames, ridden the national championship? Have you been to and ridden a trial in the western half of the US?????
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briarpatch
N.J.
MH
Posts:168
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| 01/18/2011 1:03 PM |
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I was just asking as 150 feet is 50 yards , so thats where the 50 is coming in ..
Trueblue has "Meat dogs" any dogs that kills 4125 birds can't be "rocket dogs" 
I am just kidding ...
Thats funny right there i dont care who ya are ... |
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My Pups:
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4448
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| 01/18/2011 2:15 PM |
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The championship has been held there for how many years? Must have some merit.
The quail are not planted, they are released weeks before. I have not been there,does that change anything about the test?
You know,I'm not real sure of your point in all this? Is it to prove your dogs are better than mine? Or that porch sweepers are not worthy to grace your kennels?
or you just don't like people who live in the east?
I am proud to own dogs, have a desire to breed dogs and enjoy dogs who hunt within sight, on foot.
This discussion needs to end.
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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RyanGSP
MH
Posts:428
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| 01/18/2011 5:21 PM |
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Posted By pixie bee on 01/18/2011 2:15 PM
The championship has been held there for how many years? Must have some merit.
The quail are not planted, they are released weeks before. I have not been there,does that change anything about the test?
You know,I'm not real sure of your point in all this? Is it to prove your dogs are better than mine? Or that porch sweepers are not worthy to grace your kennels?
or you just don't like people who live in the east?
I am proud to own dogs, have a desire to breed dogs and enjoy dogs who hunt within sight, on foot.
This discussion needs to end.
Quail released weeks before are not wild bird!! No matter what you think. Those are release birds wild birds are born in the wild.
His point is to educate you I suggest you listen. You seem to like to slander big running dogs and all he is doing is trying to explain to you that you have no idea what your talking about when it comes to these bigger running dogs. He is trying to help you in the right direction and explain to you what its like hunting behind one of these dogs. That way maybe you can slow those fingers of yours down when it comes to bashing our bigger running run offs. 
Funny how whenever somone starts backing you into a corner you like discussions to end.
Blake there is no point in trying to get her out here. In her mind she thinks the only thing out here are independant run offs and its crap country to hunt on. Which is fine we dont want or need her out here anyway. Never know she might end up with a big running dog and we would have to put up with her every year!  |
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4448
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| 01/18/2011 7:05 PM |
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Can you tell me where I bashed big running run-offs or the land either of you hunt?
I see you 2 have been PM'ing?
On the contrary - most of what I have heard are slanderous remarks of anyone who hunts different than the 2 of you.
Basically - you 2 are real hunters and the rest of us are a wannabe.
Ryan,Blake(nice to know your name) please post my slanderous and bashing remarks - that way - I can post the ones you 2 made.
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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RyanGSP
MH
Posts:428
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| 01/18/2011 7:15 PM |
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No we havent been PM'ing sorry to ruin it for you. Its out in plain sight what hes trying to do. You seem to have your blinders on and defenses up. We are not saying anyone is bad for hunting any way other than what we do what we are telling you is what you need to hunt out here and we are defending our dogs which you seem so inclined to bash into the ground.
You seem to take everything as a grudge or a knock against you/your dogs when we really all we are saying is they are not going to work out here. As well as pointing breeds were meant to hunt away from the gun. Weather is be 1 yard past gun range or 1000 yards past gun range. Thats why they point and hold. If we wanted a dog that hunted underfoot and under gun all day we would buy spaniels and labs. |
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4448
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| 01/18/2011 7:19 PM |
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Thanks Ryan,
can you please post where I bashed and slandered?
In this post you continue to bash and slander.
I think this entire nonsense started on apge 30?
Thanks Ryan,
Francine |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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RyanGSP
MH
Posts:428
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| 01/18/2011 7:30 PM |
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Pixie if you want me to start bashing and slandering you and your dogs i'd be happy to do it. THis all started with me saying your dogs type didnt appeal to me and my style of hunting. Thats when you went off the wall and got all defensive. Isnt that what got you botted off Gun Dog Forum in the 1st place? You cant take anyone not liking your dogs and you got on the defense.
BTW nice work on editing your posts. |
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Almost Heaven GSP
Springfield, WV
MH
Posts:731
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| 01/18/2011 8:35 PM |
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Ya know, this thread has been quietly watched for the past week and a half or so now....
Every email has been read and is saved, no amount of editing can take back what has already been typed and sent.
I think it's time that perhaps it would be good to step away from the keyboard unless it is ON TOPIC, non-confrontational and offers contribution.
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Money will buy a fine dog, but only kindness will make him wag his tail.
Bruce Shaffer
Almost Heaven GSP's
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4448
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| 01/19/2011 4:49 AM |
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Ryan,GDF, really? What are you talking about?Where do you get this information from - OH, I know - you make it up as you go along.
Bruce,
I apologize for this last post.
Francine |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4448
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Almost Heaven GSP
Springfield, WV
MH
Posts:731
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| 01/19/2011 7:19 PM |
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| Bear with me, I'm trying to split this, as I feel the Run topic is a good one to discuss. Could someone please try to post in the "Run" topic below this one? |
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Money will buy a fine dog, but only kindness will make him wag his tail.
Bruce Shaffer
Almost Heaven GSP's
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