CathyYak
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| 01/13/2011 9:55 AM |
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Pixie Bee wrote:
"Cathy stated the height requirements of the AKC. An oversized dog can be DQd."
Once again, No, and oversized dog CAN NOT be DQ'd in AKC competition. They can be placed last or not at all, but they cannot be DQ's. |
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Cathy Iacopelli
Claddagh Kennels
Long Island, New York |
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pixie bee
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Posts:4448
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| 01/13/2011 10:05 AM |
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yes, height is not a DQ according to the standard.
What I meant by DQd in the ring was that a judge would probably not place such a dog - therefore DQing in a subtle way.
I thought I heard once or twice that a wicket has been used by a judge. I think a UK judge has done this in an AKC show. This was a loong time ago. My memory may be off.
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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Texas Belle
Austin, TX
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Posts:7836
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| 01/13/2011 10:43 AM |
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Folks Cathy is right about size (height and weight) is not a DQ. They are to be "severely penalized" in the show ring. As such a judge cannot wicket or weigh a GSP in the ring period. We had this actually come up with a judge last year because the judge thought the GSP she was judging was too tall. She called for the wicket and it was challenged by the handler. The AKC rep was called for a ruling. The ruling was that the dog could NOT be wicketed because the standard did NOT state that height or weight was a DQ, but instead said it was to be "severly penalized." Thus, judge could severely penalize the dog which is what happened. He was put dead last in his class.
As for the rest of this discussion all I can do as an owner/handler/breeder is the best job I can possibly do by my dogs and the breed. If I had the time and money I would do it all, but I don't so I have to limit what I do with my gang. I do conformation, obedience, hunt tests, some agility when I have time, flyball from time to time, and therapy dog work. That IMHO is not too bad and is certainly more than most. I am proud of my dogs and love them dearly and we have fun together, and IMHO that is all that really matters. |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
   
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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briarpatch
N.J.
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Posts:168
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briarpatch
N.J.
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Posts:168
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4448
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| 01/13/2011 12:27 PM |
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Due to what's been brought to light, we can say at least some shorthairs have e. It has been proven, w/o a doubt, that some shorthairs have e BUT not entirely proven it wasn't contributed due to a cross in the first 5 generations.
Of course, we do still need to consider TYPE. Ah, there's that word again. But, it has been said that there are different types. So a lemon shorthair, with short ears, flesh colored nose is a shorthair.
What can be researched is the dogs in these pedigrees going back at least 5 generations. Are there dogs in the pedigree that have been, or a high probability,of being bred with EP? Not that this gene could only have been contributed by an EP. Labs carry e. Given the proof that the parents are GSPs that carry Ee then it would be likely an EP cross. If they carry Ee, then their parents would have to have an 'e' and so on. How far back can someone trace the pedigree?
What I find odd, and I have said this from the begining, is that this breeder has 2 dogs with Ee. If this is rare, how is it possible that both dogs have Ee?
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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RyanGSP
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Posts:430
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| 01/13/2011 12:32 PM |
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Posted By CathyYak on 01/13/2011 5:38 AM
(so y'all don't have to break down and read it)
The Kettle calling the pot black. |
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RyanGSP
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Posts:430
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| 01/13/2011 12:44 PM |
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Posted By pixie bee on 01/13/2011 8:24 AM
Ryan,Ryan,Ryan.
I have nothing to prove.
I don't hunt for that long anyway. 2-3 hours and I've had enough. The dogs haven't but we have. We hunt up and down mountainsides,thru snow, thru woods and fields and water sometimes. What you are talking about is conditioning. My dogs are objective seekers and would do well in the sparse terrain. It may take them a a few contacts to adjust to handling the birds- but that's all aout having enough bird contacts. Since nose it not the issue, what is there left to prove?
If you are wanting to prove your dog can locate faster than mine - that's just silly and being an adult - I don't buy into it.
We are woods hunters primarily. grouse,woodcock and rabbit. How would your dogs fair in the grouse woods? Can your dogs point up a tree? Mine can. Can your dog walk at heel thru the woods and be steady thru 'fall' on rabbit or thru 'fall' while pond jumping? Mine can. We are pretty darn good at stalking. We like to hunt this way when the situation calls for it, which is part of every hunt. Thing is Ryan, my dogs can handle all the different diciplines, can yours?
And in case I haven't mentioned it -
MY DOG IS BETTER THAN YOU DOG.
(I just had to add that)
We are argueing seperate points. Conditioning or not your dogs are not built run run at 300+ yards and make those 1/2-3/4 mile casts all day. We do make those when we are hunting sharptails and huns. If your dogs dont make the cast then you have to and we as people are not nearly as fast as a dog. Therefore in a day your covering less ground which means less chance of seeing game.
If you really want to see who's dog is better i'd be happy to fly you out here but if we end up shooting birds over my dogs all day because yours are lying in my truck box tired you have to reimburse me for the tickets.
BTW I have no need to shoot rabbits. I dont eat them I dont need nor want to shoot them. It also looks really bad when my dog points fur at a test or trial. I also hunt with alot of different people over lots of different breeds of dogs. I dont want to be the @$$ hole those dog is pointing fur and teaching the rest of the dogs to do it too.
Grouse yes we have done a little 1 or 2 seasons while I lived north. And yes Pixie whether in the woods, on the lake or in the city he listens the same.
Oh and I dont puddle jump, I learned how to call waterfowl so they come to me. No need to go looking. |
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CathyYak
MH
Posts:963
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| 01/13/2011 1:00 PM |
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Please be more specific in your accusations. |
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Cathy Iacopelli
Claddagh Kennels
Long Island, New York |
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RyanGSP
MH
Posts:430
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| 01/13/2011 1:12 PM |
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Do I really need to? Complaining that people dont read the breed standard when a few pages back you yourself admitted to not wanting to take the time to read yourself.
Once again
The Kettle is Calling the Pot Black. |
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4448
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| 01/13/2011 1:34 PM |
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Ryan,
how can you possible look at a dog a know:
quote]your dogs are not built run run at 300+ yards and make those 1/2-3/4 mile casts all day.
My one dog is easy 300+ yard dog and the other well, he's not going to go more than 100 or so yards - but not b/c of build,b/c of his genes.
What you refer to as 'built' is not build, but genes. Along your lines of thinking - any smaller dog can perform what you stated above. Simply not true. Otherwise, every field bred GSP would be a winner at trials. It's genes that determine range, not build.
"Listens the same"? I'm not talking about obeying commands. My dogs perform what is required with little to no commands.
I am not going to sit and call waterfowl when I don't have to. We walk and if we come across a pond with waterfowl, we stalk,down,flush,shoot,retrieve. It's part of the hunt,as are rabbits. It's a thing called versatile. Many aspects of a hunt,switching from one to the other with ease and no prep time.
Don't down talk rabbits. They make a great stew. |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4448
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| 01/13/2011 1:36 PM |
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I will not continue to defend my dogs or my preferred way of hunting. I have never said my dogs were better than anyone's.
Ryan, you're on your own.
How about refraining from future posts?
Thanks,
Francine |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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briarpatch
N.J.
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Posts:168
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| 01/13/2011 1:40 PM |
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Pixie if you could trace the dogs back a hundred and fifty years and knew exactly what went on behind each barn there are going to be EP crosses even in your precious DK's so your point is mute ..The EP was one of the ancesters of the breed and not only possible crosses went on behind barns but is also documented as an ancester of the breed ........SO Ee as found in the parents could have been from a closer cross or a ancester cross we can only speculate and guess the answer..
The breed was devolped from several breeds that carried the little e why would someone believe we wouldnt find the little e in at least some of the modern day shorthair or DK population???? Until the entire modern dog is tested we wont know what are all the alles found in the breed ..and then apparently even when we do find alles that dont belong to the standard colors there will be those that claim it is from a modern cross even though they really have no clue if it is from an actual modern day cross or if it something that is from the origins of the breed .. but they will still yell even with no proof of wrong doing, that it doesnt belong why because it doesnt fit their idea or types of the perfect GSP specimen or it isnt written in some standard as a proper color .....Just because it isnt a proper color doesnt make it not a real or true DK/GSP as several people wish to make people believe with perpetuating the little e myth ..
Just my opinion
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My Pups:
   
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CathyYak
MH
Posts:963
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| 01/13/2011 2:41 PM |
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Again, be specific. Quote me. |
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Cathy Iacopelli
Claddagh Kennels
Long Island, New York |
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briarpatch
N.J.
MH
Posts:168
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CathyYak
MH
Posts:963
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| 01/13/2011 5:32 PM |
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| I am talking to Ryan who is accusing me of being a pot calling a kettle black. |
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Cathy Iacopelli
Claddagh Kennels
Long Island, New York |
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briarpatch
N.J.
MH
Posts:168
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| 01/13/2011 5:36 PM |
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| oh Cathy ya need to fix the link to your website in your profile ....I was just checkin out your website but couldnt get to it by the link ..its mistyped in your profile |
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My Pups:
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RyanGSP
MH
Posts:430
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| 01/13/2011 5:40 PM |
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Posted By pixie bee on 01/13/2011 1:36 PM
I will not continue to defend my dogs or my preferred way of hunting. I have never said my dogs were better than anyone's.
Ryan, you're on your own.
How about refraining from future posts?
Thanks,
Francine
Francine im not asking you to defend your dogs. You can look at a dog and tell its not going to run all day. How its built is going to tell your right away how long its going to last. A dog thats built like most show dogs are isnt going to last all day. They are far to big and bulky to be able to move that much weight around at a good pace all day.
A lighter built dog has less weight to carry and be able to go much longer. Why do you think pointers are built so light? |
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RyanGSP
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Posts:430
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| 01/13/2011 5:44 PM |
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Posted By RyanGSP on 01/13/2011 12:32 PM
The Kettle calling the pot black.
Just for you Cathy
Posted By CathyYak on 01/07/2011 5:48 PM
Ryan,
I am really not interested in looking up old posts or researching people who post here. Thanks for the answer.
Posted By CathyYak on 01/13/2011 5:38 AM
(so y'all don't have to break down and read it)
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RyanGSP
MH
Posts:430
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| 01/13/2011 5:49 PM |
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Posted By pixie bee on 01/13/2011 1:36 PM
How about refraining from future posts?
Thanks,
Francine
In all our disagreements this is always the way you try to end it. You think by now you would figure out this isnt going to happen.
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