Posted By pixie bee on 04/13/2010 4:37 PM
Did you know English Pointer and English Setter pups are white at birth,too.

 

Posted By pixie bee on 04/13/2010 7:51 PM
As you can see the blaze does not go up the muzzle and widen on top of the head( like an EP and ES),there are patches on the one GSP and the other young pup has a pretty even colored head. I am sure you are aware that some lines of GSP have EP bred to them (from about the 70's until most probably to today - behind the barn.)
 

This is what I enjoy most about Pixee Bee. A strong desire to comment with a minimum desire to be consistent. First it’s got to be an EP cross, then it might be a pure bred GSP (she is at least open to the possibility), then that possibility becomes an insult, then it is a lab mix.

You say this arguement is not about one dog, but you continue to ignore the larger issues related to what caused this dogs color. You fail to address what should be done to dogs with the correct coloring but contain the 'e'. There are more and more of them out there. 25% of every litter that has one parent with the 'e' will carry the gene but NONE will show off coloring. 50% of a litter will carry the gene where both parents have the gene, NONE of which will be visably a DQ. How many breeders are perpetuating this from pure ignorance because they have not seen a dog with this color. It is offensive to me that your objection is to the color and not the underlying cause. You test  ALL your dogs for disease but none of them for this, even though you have made clear how strongly you feel it is bad for the breed. You claim you know the lines this color is coming from (even though you have also implied that many are dishonest and would hide it) and avoid them. Couldnt one say the same about health issues? It is entirely possible (not an accusation) that the 'e' could be present in any line and not produce an off color for generations... years.

The dog on your couch comment was not specifically directed at you, but rather to GSP owners in general.

I can understand your comments on the registration of this dog. It is a matter of opinion what the rules should be. It is not a matter of opinion what the rules ARE.

As far as suggesting that this dog be put down. You lost any respect that I might have had for you. What would that solve? There are half a litter of pups that could also pass this along and you say NOTHING about them.

Fighting ignorance is, and will continue to be, important to me.

Your statement that I have made a case for or against him being a pure bred is again incorrect.

This is not the first head shot I have posted. It is, however, the first photo taken with a fish eye lense from under the dogs head (he was on my couch) with the lense no more than six inches from the tip of his nose. If you would like to make your judgements from that photo... knock yourself out.

hehe  As far as your signature. Good for you. Scary. But good for you.

OMG. Seriously. I am certain of his parents, which is all that is required to register him with the AKC. I have explained more than once my reason for registering him. (hint: It has nothing to do with ignorance, arrogance or ego).

You don't get it.

Carry on.

Actually Flash it is you who needs some educating, Healthgene has nothing to do with the health of an animal but COLOR. Further, you just skipped my answer to the "what to do" with the problems issue, and I don't believe I alluded but flat said, DO not allow this dog to be registered if I am the breeder, don't register the dog if I bought him, and really put him down day one if he's born to a litter of mine. Pretty simple answers!! The dog ain't a shorthair no matter what the papers may say. There's a pointer in the woodpile and that pointer ain't four generations back I will bet!!  From the dog's head shape and muzzle I am betting an AKC POINTER at that!!

Well you got me on the HealthGene deal. I did make an assumption that it was for genetic diseases. It does strike me as odd that you would test for coat color and not for the 'e'.

Edit: I miesread your post about genetic testing. I thought you said you did not have coat color testing done.

Could you explain in more detail why you would cull the pup? What you would be accomplishing by doing this? I am not a breeder, so am not wise in this area.
 

I will weigh in and say that I would never put a healthy dog down just because of a fault regardless of the fault. I don't give a flying flip for what others think or say. I would find the dog a good home just like I would for any other puppy I had bred and would sell it on a Limited Registration with the spay or neuter requirement in my contract. I would stay in touch with the puppy buyer just like I do with any of my puppy buyers and would advise them as any good breeder would.

My only concern is for the puppies I breed and not what others may or may not think or say.

I would also investigate the breeding to figure out what is going on and depending on the fault I might or might not breed that dog or dogs again.  In the case of a color issue, if it was in my lines I would do the health testing needed to prevent future occurrences of the color fault again.  I would probably also contact my puppy buyers and pay for the testing of the pups that might be in the breeding pool to make sure they did not pass on the fault as well.

My two cents.

You are from Canada?

Just so I don't make any assumptions... You test for coat color? What loci specifically do you test for? What color was it that was in your line that you are concerned about?

I like your revised answer on culling much better. The point I have been trying to make for some time and have apparently failed is that culling the dog that has the odd color (like my dog) does nothing but hide the problem. It saves the breeder embarrasment and "negative press" but only perpetuates the problem. If the litter that produced this dog had 10 pups, one of which was like my Apollo, then roughly 5 would carry the 'e' with no outward signs of it. You whack him in the head, drown him in a bucket or step on him, whatever, you have saved your dignity but done nothing to help the breed. In fact, one might argue that your selfishness has hurt the breed.

On a side note, my daughter (the official owner of this dog, age 12) was reading this as I prepared to post this and saw your post about culling him. She likes your horse but would like to "punch you in the throat." Hehe.

Texas Belle, I am sure I have offended you in this thread at some point, but I do like your contributions. Thank you.

I take it by your revisiting the alias issue of page 13 that you are going to ignore the real question of my last post regarding what loci you test for and what color you are concerned about?

Oh and dont be offended by my daughter please. She wants to punch me everytime I correct the dog. 
 

As far as my true identity goes... quite frankly some of you ladies scare me.