Flash01
SH
Posts:56
 |
| 01/04/2011 2:31 PM |
|
Posted By CathyYak on 01/04/2011 2:14 PM
And I am not angry, I really don't care much what you do with your dogs.
Everyone keeps saying that, but the evidence is contrary.
Oh, and the AKC is not responsible for this. People who deliberately or unknowing register dogs with the wrong sire on the litter are to blame. We pretty much know for sure who the dams are.
Cathy
Your logic in the last paragraph is remarkable. Blame a person who "unknowingly" does something but not a system that would allow an honest mistake to be repeated.
You cannot argue with stuff like this. |
|
|
|
|
therozypozy
MH
Posts:348
|
| 01/04/2011 2:34 PM |
|
This has been interesting reading . . . but was a DNA profile done on the parents and do either one of them carry the "e"? If so, is that breeder no longer going to include that dog in his breeding program? I too would think somewhere down the line a pointer was thrown into the mix just by this dog's looks. Funny thing is, he could probably ILP register or PAL register as a pointer and enter all performance events as a pointer. And just because I think that a pointer was thrown into the mix does not immediately mean that this dog's breeder is the one who had a GSP bred with a Pointer, I will assume that some of the breeder's dogs that he breeds came from outside sources . . . and well not all people are honest. I am just glad the dog was not "culled" like the use to do when something did not come out as planned, but would have liked to have read that this dog was sold on a "limited registration".
Just be ready when you go to trials, alot of people are going to think there is some "pointer" in its background and then of course they may be a little jealous when your dog wins. |
|
|
|
|
briarpatch
N.J.
MH
Posts:168
|
|
briarpatch
N.J.
MH
Posts:168
|
|
briarpatch
N.J.
MH
Posts:168
|
|
pixie bee
MH
Posts:4123
|
| 01/04/2011 3:20 PM |
|
they have rules just like that where a breed warden comes and looks at the litter and decides if it is registerable or not
The breed warden does not 'decide.'The breed warden ensures the litter is of type, that the parents who are claimed,to the best of his knowledge, are the parents(a black pup in a live/white litter) and to determine if there are any DQ pups.
Your statement above sounds as tho you are against the need for a breed warden. Am I correct?
|
|
"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
|
|
|
briarpatch
N.J.
MH
Posts:168
|
| 01/04/2011 3:50 PM |
|
Well I think it has worked well for the DK they have awesome dogs with many breeders producing dogs that are exactly my type of GSP ..however No I dont think a breedwarden is needed as long as you have responsible breeders..
If the breed warden decides the litter is not from the parents claimed or are not of type then the litter is unregisterable correct ??..I thought i had a pretty good understanding of it..
In this country you have many responsible breeders and many not so responsible breeders and a vast countryside with many breeders breeding towards different goals , doesnt make them bad breeders , but here they do have the ability to make the breed a very diverse breed..
Yes I dont believe I need a breed warden to tell me anything ..
But my statement wasnt to say its a good or bad idea , it was to say if people believe that is what is needed in the AKC system there is no need for them to complain about it ..there is a system already available that is set up in that manor... |
|
My Pups:
   
|
|
|
CathyYak
MH
Posts:941
|
| 01/04/2011 4:58 PM |
|
Briarpatch,
My apologies to you for adressing the post to you instead of Flash. I will be more careful in the future.
Flash, I would still like to know where I twisted facts.
Cathy |
|
Cathy Iacopelli
Claddagh Kennels
Long Island, New York |
|
|
pixie bee
MH
Posts:4123
|
| 01/04/2011 5:13 PM |
|
In this country you have many responsible breeders and many not so responsible breeders and a vast countryside with many breeders breeding towards different goals , doesnt make them bad breeders , but here they do have the ability to make the breed a very diverse breed..
In a nutshell, you have described why I chose a breed with breeding regulations.
|
|
"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
|
|
|
RyanGSP
MH
Posts:345
|
| 01/04/2011 5:16 PM |
|
| This is getting out of control. There are way too many hens in the hen house. |
|
|
|
|
RyanGSP
MH
Posts:345
|
| 01/04/2011 5:27 PM |
|
On a lighter note here is my rare GSP color. This phot is not altered in any way either for all you dis believers.
Here he is at the back.
Oh and BTW he went on to take Best Altered male with those colours  |
|
|
|
|
CathyYak
MH
Posts:941
|
| 01/04/2011 5:47 PM |
|
The third one in line isn't much darker. But they still both appear to be liver and white. Not much rare about that. There is no color chip in the standard, liver is liver and there are plenty of shades of it. That said, I would personally be unlikely to breed a dog if that was the color it was with good nutrition and some sunblock. But that's just me. We used to see more dogs with that coloring when Eukanuba first came out. Turned liver coats more red. Also, dogs who spend a lot of time outside can get that bleached out look.
I c an't be sure from this angle, but I think I much prefer that nice solid liver up front. Where is it that you can show neutered males? I wish we could do that at AKC events.
Cluck cluck.
|
|
Cathy Iacopelli
Claddagh Kennels
Long Island, New York |
|
|
pixie bee
MH
Posts:4123
|
| 01/04/2011 6:01 PM |
|
Not desirable, but not a DQ. |
|
"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
|
|
|
RyanGSP
MH
Posts:345
|
| 01/04/2011 6:37 PM |
|
Haha I love it when the die hard pick apart a joke.
Here he is in the spring before the time of year when its impossible to get him to come inside.
 |
|
|
|
|
RyanGSP
MH
Posts:345
|
| 01/04/2011 6:51 PM |
|
Posted By pixie bee on 01/04/2011 6:01 PM
Not desirable, but not a DQ.
Why did you edit your post?
Any judge that marks down adog that is sun bleached needs to be thrown out of the building and never allowed to judge again. Why would you mark down a dog because it enjoys being outside and as a side effect it bleaches the fur? |
|
|
|
|
Legallyblonde
Otsego MI
MH
Posts:238
|
| 01/04/2011 7:20 PM |
|
Cathy Yak:
You can show altered in UKC, and it is a licensed class. I'm not sure if that's where RyanGSP was showing, but it was added as a licensed class last year.
And I agree, any judge that would discount a dog foer sunbleaching is worthless. |
|
UWPCH CA GSJCH USUVCH Boogerman Loverboy Oskar TDI CGC
SHR UWP CH Abbe Lane's Prince of Darkness TAN NA-I RBIMBS |
|
|
RyanGSP
MH
Posts:345
|
| 01/04/2011 7:38 PM |
|
| That was the CKC Nationals in 2010 Altered Class. |
|
|
|
|
Flash01
SH
Posts:56
|
| 01/04/2011 11:21 PM |
|
Posted By trueblushorthairs on 01/04/2011 1:10 PM
i think you gave us all the "facts" we needed when you posted a pic of this dog. Go ahead and register a Chihuahua as a shorthair, flat doesn't make it so. the AKC is purely a registering/money taking body, NOT the breed police. The GSPCA is very clear!!
Interesting.
A. Registering a Chihauahua as a shorthair would be dishonest and a clear violation of AKC registration rules. I have followed the registration rules. Since my only claim is that I have registered him, and you fully admit that "the AKC is purely a registering body", then we finally agree about something. Finally. I may want a hug if you are up to it. The thing that has been bothering me in all this, that has made me a little 'testy' in my postings, is that there is this underlying tone that I have cheated or been dishonest. The truth is that I have not been dishonest with anyone regarding this dog (or anything else for that matter). I think some of you guys have your 'panties in a bunch' over the fact that this dog can be registered... within the rules and guidelines. No matter how you slice or it what justifications you attempt to put in your logic, this dog can be honorably registered within the AKC rules.
Some of you are very curious to me. One the one hand, you state pretty clearly that you believe so many people are dishonest that you need "breed police" and "wardens" to monitor the unwashed masses to ensure the purity of the breed. On the other hand, you are surprised and upset that individuals are not voluntarily going above and beyond the rules to satisfy your version of how things should be (while clearly being within the AKC rules).
B. Another thing that has been confusing and frustrating (for me anyway) is that there are really two (or more) arguments being intertwined in the discussion: 1) Is the dog a pure bred GSP? and 2) Can the dog be AKC registered?
- Is the dog a pure bred GSP? I have never addressed this issue. At this point it is unprovable and no one's mind will be changed by any amount of speculation, as some have eloquently pointed out.
- Can he be registered? Let's assume for a minute that we agree a dog like this should not be registered. Then what? What about his littermates that displayed no DQ coloring? Roughly 50% of them will carry the 'e' gene that they can pass along. Should they be registerable? Would a breed warden fix that? What about the dog on YOUR couch? If the argument is that only dogs without the 'e' can be registered, how do we prove it? Testing for everyone? Remember, Apollo's sire and dam (or any known ancestor) displayed no signs of this color and if you saw them you wouldn't think anything about them being regular pure bred GSPs (pixee bee would of course, but most would not) and they both carried the 'e' and produced this pup.
The answer to the question can he be registered, is YES, he can. That is a fact. With all the genetic testing available and a reported color DQ, he CAN be registered. He can be registered by the "registering/money taking body" that is the AKC. If you have issues with this, take it up with them. (Also, TruBlue, I fully expect that genetic testing for 'e' will be routinely done by you and advertised as such in your breeding announcements from now on, now that you have expressed such an interest and outrage regarding it. Good for you.)
You can make all the snide comments you wish, but it doesn't change the facts (and the real facts, not made up Chihauahua facts) regarding this. |
|
|
|
|
pixie bee
MH
Posts:4123
|
| 01/05/2011 4:42 AM |
|
Ryan,
I did change my post. The change was I deleted that I would not breed a dog with poor pigmentation.
flash,
thank you for making your lastest post. |
|
"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
|
|
|
gsp-fan
AZ
MH
Posts:345
|
| 01/05/2011 6:02 AM |
|
I am curious why people are saying this dog has EP crossed in it? Is it just because of the coloring?
When I look at the face of the dog I do not see EP the muzzle is to long - more like a GSP. I say this
as I look over at both my GSP & EP laying on the couch and notice the differences. The color of Flash's dog
looks like the picture Ryan posted but with less spots. The chest is much deeper on Flash.
The origin of the GSP from the AKC website:
The origin of the German Shorthaired Pointer is not clear, but the source of the breed seems to have been the German Bird Dog, related to the old Spanish Pointer, and various crossings with local German scent hounds and track and trail dogs. When the Germans introduced the English Pointers to lend elegance to the German Shorthaired Pointer prototype, the result was a utility dog that combined sporting virtue with clean lines, good looks and sound temperament.
Maybe Flash is a dog from the original dogs that started it all LOL
Your dog is beautiful and you are very happy with him and in my mind that is all that matters. Happy hunting. |
|
|
|
|