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RyanGSP
MH
Posts:430
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| 04/13/2010 8:03 PM |
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| Cause having a pure bred dog is more important to you than anything else? |
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4450
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| 04/13/2010 8:06 PM |
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That's a simple way of putting it,but I guess that's what it boils down to.
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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Flash01
SH
Posts:56
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| 04/13/2010 8:15 PM |
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Posted By pixie bee on 04/13/2010 8:01 PM
Wrong.
Please brush upon your history before you start quoting it.
There is a good reason I have DKs.
Hehe.
This is from the AKC website...
German Shorthaired Pointer History
The German Shorthaired Pointer combined in field-dog requirements those qualities which have long popularized the various breeds of hunting dogs. Through judicious crossing of the descendants of the old Spanish Pointer, English Foxhound, and local German tracking hounds, the breed has acquired a keen scenting power linked with high intelligence, leading to its reputation as an ideal all-purpose dog. The breed is proficient with many different types of game and sport, including trailing, retrieving, and pointing pheasant, quail, grouse, waterfowl, coons, possum, and even deer.
The origin of the German Shorthaired Pointer, as with most breeds, is not clear, but the source of basic foundation stock seems to have been the German Bird Dog, related to the old Spanish Pointer, and various crossings with local German scent hounds and track and trail dogs (Schweisshunde). When the Germans finally introduced the fine English Pointers to lend elegance to the German Shorthaired Pointer prototype, the result was a magnificent utility dog that combined sporting virtue with clean lines, good looks, sound temperament and longevity. The German Shorthaired Pointer was first admitted to the AKC Stud Book in 1930, with the first specialty and field trial sponsored by the parent club held in the same year, 1941.
You people are angry...
Oh, by the way, found this on the DK...
The origin of the DK breed, as with all other dogs with pointing skills, included the ancient Spanish pointer. It is also widely accepted that some form of blood tracking hound played a significant role in the outcome. Some form of Saint Huberts Hound is widely considered the most likely contributor. Additionally, the Hubertus Brachen and English Pointer have been mentioned along with other unnamed European blood tracking and pointing breeds of the time. Information is sketchy and opinions weighted with nationalism and rumor. Suffice it to say that several different ingredients eventually made it into the pot in an effort to produce the right combination of genes.
Wow, purity at its most pure.
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CathyYak
MH
Posts:963
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| 04/13/2010 8:29 PM |
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Posted By RyanGSP on 04/13/2010 8:03 PM
Cause having a pure bred dog is more important to you than anything else?
Yes, it is important to me that GSPs registered with AKC as purebred are in fact purebred. If you want to post a picture of that lemon ticked dog with the red nose and the whatever-color-those-are eyes and say, hey look at my beautiful GSP mix hunting dog, I would agree it is cute and wish you luck with it.
I have nothing against mixed breed dogs as long as they are not passed off as purebred. And that is directly in answer to the question above and not directed specifically at any particular dog.
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Cathy Iacopelli
Claddagh Kennels
Long Island, New York |
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Jason
JH
Posts:23
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| 04/13/2010 10:06 PM |
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"why did you choose Sandy out of the litter?
would her color have anything to do with breeding her?
are you looking to produce the color?"
First off, if anyone should be throwing a fit it should be me for the chastising you people go about demanding how things are and should be rather than opening your eyes to something bigger than you can think of and out of your little box!
"Why did I choose Sandy", I had no choice! I could take her or not! She was given to me because the breeders knew I would make something out of her.
"would her color have anything to do with breeding her?" In my world, if she turns out half the dog she shows potential fo than her coat color has little to do with it but will be concidered when and if I do breed her.
"are you looking to produce the color?" Yes and no.
So many of you seem to think you know the breed better than anyone else because you read a book or breed a specific line. From the breeders I've talked with, which I'm sure none of you "purists" will admit, have had pups like this come up in breedings only to be "taken care of as to not taint the gene pool. Sad fact is every dog out there when paired with that one other mate has a chance of producing two. Flash, how many were this color in your pups litter?
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Almost Heaven GSP
Springfield, WV
MH
Posts:731
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| 04/13/2010 10:17 PM |
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For you folks with the off colors, could you email me Ped's please? I'm wanting to do a bit of research on this and trying to gather as broad a sample as I can. You're welcome to pass my info on to others that you know with these colors as well.
blshaffer@frontiernet.net
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Money will buy a fine dog, but only kindness will make him wag his tail.
Bruce Shaffer
Almost Heaven GSP's
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4450
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| 04/14/2010 6:21 AM |
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flasho1,
I can't tell you why the AKC website says this information.
The Germans did not use the EP to establish the breed - they added a Pointer for different reasons as stated above and after the breed was established.
Thru accident or genetics,it is my opinion the color should not be bred.
This is strictly an AKC issue. No where else in the world will it be allowed to be bred.
There are many in this country who care about the road the GSP is on. I see a split,
which is good, but I am wondering if these breeders are going to follow thru with breeding a correct type GSP. Then there is a question of what is correct type.Is it the Americanized GSP,the versatile GSP (NAVHDA) or the DK ancenstry. When people say they can not telll a difference between a DK and a GSP I sometimes wonder what they are looking at.
While there are those lines that are bred more to type and performance there are so many other GSPs that fall short of their ancestry. To some, this is desireable. These individuals are not interested in maintaining the ancestry and only want to create a new breed - the American GSP.
I can not say if a new name for the GSP would be better or worse. It would certainly create a rift between the different types of GSP in the states. I also wonder if many GSP owners would opt for a DK.
What I hope for in the GSP is a coming together of type. There can only be one type within a breed. yes, I would like the GSP to be more like a DK.
These are my opinions, what I want for the GSP and I believe I am correct.
No one has to agree. We all have agendas.
Francine
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4450
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| 04/14/2010 6:21 AM |
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double post
deleted by original poster
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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briarpatch
N.J.
MH
Posts:168
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| 04/14/2010 7:46 AM |
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I swore I was going to leave this thread but since it once again has been restarted, I will put my 2 cents in lol
An Account and history of the German shorthaired pointer by Michael meredith hardy (british man)
quote page 1.
" The German shorthaired pointer or Jagdhund, is a breed of dog that has been established on the continent of europe for generations, with more or less the same conformation. They come from the same ancestors as all the other pointing dogs to be forund in europe, the english pointer, the weimaraner, the hungarian vislar, the french and Italian pointers and the various braques"
Page 15
" In GERMANY the feudal traditions lingered for a long time and it was not until after the revolution of 1848 that ordinary people had the opertunities to do any shooting and therefore own shooting dogs. and what pointing dogs there were, were owned by the aristocracy and big landlords. After 1870 we come to a period when the conformation of the German Shorthair as we know him today became settled.
Up to that time breeeding had been haphazard and amateur, but after 1872 a number of germans set about trying to breed a stable form of dog which would have the qaulities that they required in the field ..." end of quote ..
my note
Haphazard and amatuer ..They were experimenting with crosses of
breeds to get the desired out come and yes once again the pied english pointer along with all kinds of pointers and some hounds were thrown into the pot before the breed was established , so to keep pretending that only black EPs were used is nonscense they were, the black pointer reintroduced to the established breed at a later time ..WAKE UP its origins is from mixing many breeds including the EP so the DK is no more pure than anything else,
also the little E will tell you nothing dont waste your money dude noone knows 100% for sure that the little E isnt present in GSP's thats another false statement presented by those that dont like odd colors..
That being said I wouldnt breed that dog in the newest pictures it looks too much like an EP with its tail chopped off or a french braque perhaps it is purebred and an ole ancesters genes popped forward or perhaps its not and something crossed with it , either way it noway resembles the breed so therefore should not be bred not only is its color very odd a compeletly different color then any i have seen before and I studied this a bit, but its head has a different shape then the breed it is nowhere near proper conformation of this breed, if you want to breed EP's with its tail chopped off then just buy a couple and chop off their tails and register them correctly ..or french braques ..but if that is a gsp or not it shouldnt be bred into the genepool its a setback or a step backwards to the breed at best to reproduce a dog with that conformation.And I aint one big on conformation more so on abilities but still gotta have limits ...
Of course thats just my opinion its your dog ..
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My Pups:
   
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4450
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| 04/14/2010 8:33 AM |
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The first half of your post - the ancentry part - is opinion of the author - not fact.
The DK was created. Several dogs went into the making. I don't know ANYONE who can say exactly what went in. From early photos it is clear the EP was not used and by the time the Arkwright Pointer was used the breed's conformation was settled. If breeders used EPs later on and hid the fact we can never know - it is all hear-say. It seems everyone has an opinion - lovers of the EP seem to want to believe the breed was used. Almost as a way yo discredit the DK as being a capable breed of its own.
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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dadx4
Posts:3
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| 04/14/2010 8:50 AM |
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What I know...
...a little about dogs
...a little about genetics
... VERY little about women
... A LOT about Biology
For those of you using absolutes like 'can't' and 'never' and 'always'...there is a book, written by a man, who sailed on a ship...his name was Charles.
www.amazon.com/Origin-Species-150th-Anniversary/dp/0451529065/ref=sr_1_1
Dogs are part of something bigger than pedigrees, conformation, and breeding....it's called nature. Anyone who ignores or forgets this most basic fact, is fooling themselves. |
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Flash01
SH
Posts:56
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| 04/14/2010 8:55 AM |
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For the record, I have no intentions of breeding this dog. Never did. Thats one of the reasons I let my daughter get him, cause I am not a breeder. I train hunting dogs, I compete with hunting dogs. I love hunting dogs.
Anyone that believes the EP was not used in the creation of the GSP breed (or the DK for that matter) is delusional.
The AKC has that on their website because it is a COMMONLY known FACT.
This is cracking me up.
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4450
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| 04/14/2010 9:02 AM |
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Well, if it's written by the AKC it must be true.
We all know that. Can't imagine what I was thinking!
Maybe the AKC should go over to the DKV and tell them what went into the mix -
b/c they seem to think differenty.
(sarcasm - free of charge)
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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Flash01
SH
Posts:56
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| 04/14/2010 9:33 AM |
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sarcasm is free, but ignorance always has a price.  |
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4450
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| 04/14/2010 9:58 AM |
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Flash01,
flaming and trolling are not welcome here.
I did not say anything against you or your dog.
Please feel free to prove me wrong w/o attacking.Do ensure your research is factual before you swear by it.
And as a side note:
Please sign your posts with your real name. Everyone here knows each other.
If you can not come forward with your identity please refrain from replying to my posts.
Francine |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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Flash01
SH
Posts:56
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| 04/14/2010 10:51 AM |
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OMG!!
This is hilarious.
My "research" is easily verifiable by any 4th grader with a library card or access to the internet.
I need to supply my true identity on this site in order to post? I must have missed that on the registration page.
As far as trolling, i dont understand... unless you define trolling as disagreeing with YOU (by that I mean you personally Francine). I have a rare colored GSP, which is the title of this thread. I have more of a right to be in this thread than you do, so maybe you should stick to the thread about "knowing you are right even in the face of overwhelming evidence against it" because you are an expert at that.
As far as flaming you, I have only responded in kind to what I have received. You have posted no references or research to back up any of your claims. I have posted exact copies of stuff from one of the most recognized expert organizations on dogs in the world. Besides, i put the next to my post, so it is inherently friendly.
Seriously, get over yourself.
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4450
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| 04/14/2010 11:25 AM |
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Have you read any books on the history of the DK? Have you spoken to breeders and owners from around the world? Do you own a DK or GSP? How long have you been with the DK or GSP breed?
"Anyone that believes the EP was not used in the creation of the GSP breed (or the DK for that matter) is delusional."
The above quote is yours.
I have to say, except for the part about the DK, I agree with this statement.
Since you have access to the internet maybe you should re-check your sources for accuracy when itcomes to the DK. What was that you said about ignorance?
BTW, it is polite when posting to post your name.It's not a requirement,it's what respectful indiviuals do. Hiding behind a computer is...... I won't say it.
Francine
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4450
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| 04/14/2010 11:59 AM |
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I think it is important to add that when there are references to the English Pointer as being part of the makeup of the DK- it is a solid black strain of EP from Mr Arkwright's kennel.
What I would like to know by those claiming full breeding on the lemon color is which generation are they claiming the gene comes from?And, is it claimed it is coming from the DK?
Francine |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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dadx4
Posts:3
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| 04/14/2010 12:14 PM |
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Posted By pixie bee on 04/14/2010 8:33 AM
The first half of your post - the ancentry part - is opinion of the author - not fact.
The DK was created. Several dogs went into the making. I don't know ANYONE who can say exactly what went in. From early photos it is clear the EP was not used and by the time the Arkwright Pointer was used the breed's conformation was settled. If breeders used EPs later on and hid the fact we can never know - it is all hear-say. It seems everyone has an opinion - lovers of the EP seem to want to believe the breed was used. Almost as a way yo discredit the DK as being a capable breed of its own.
Posted By pixie bee on 04/14/2010 11:59 AM
I think it is important to add that when there are references to the English Pointer as being part of the makeup of the DK- it is a solid black strain of EP from Mr Arkwright's kennel.
Since you have access to the internet maybe you should re-check me for accuracy when itcomes to the DK. What was that you said about ignorance?
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dadx4
Posts:3
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| 04/14/2010 12:15 PM |
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It's almost like she's trying to hide something.... hmmmmm... |
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