Cathy,
I didnt realize you didnt consider Tri's a rarer color of the GSP but thats good to know !!

The moral of the story was tri's have been known thoughout the breed history as I consider them a rarer color and therefore warrented to discuss in the thread and also this
"Presumably since the pattern is governed by a recessive gene allele there still may be GSP's carrying the gene. If two such animals chanced to mate , then perfectly legitimate tricoloured pups could appear" this was Georgina Burns comment not mine from someone well educated in the breed and in DNA of the breed and well versed in the coat color patterns in the GSP as you pointed out.
It also shows that recessive genes can be perfectly legit recessive genes for the breed and how they can reappear yes decades upon decades later yes even from the 1920's ..

But since you only want to limit the discussion to certain colors here is one on cinnamons for ya
Page 291 paragraph 4 Der Deutsch Kurzhaar
"Burns (1952) using materials gleaned from Danish studbooks, describes a litter of eleven GSP pups, from 2 normal coloured pareants in which nine were brown normal coloured and two were cinnamon coloured. Burns ascribes this phenomenon to a modifying gene "Z" named by Steiger (1936) and Willis (1977) mentions (without naming them) five alleles for colour paling in German Sheppard so it may be that another gene or genes other than C locus gene is responsible for the depth of colour in liver GSP's"

that is also a quote from Georgina Burns Book for you

And before ya ask what does this mean and I need to explain it to ya I will just go a head and explain now of course youll still pretend you dont get it but here goes ..

What this shows is that GSP's were born and known to be in the breeds history that were cinnamon colored ..And even goes on to explain the possible gene alleles responsible is the modifiying gene "Z"

Truth be told I could go on and on and read or write out from many books and authors of dogs in the breed history for ya
but obviously you are convinced you know more than the historians of the breed and really dont want a discussion but are hoping I will just shut up so you can continue on without offering one shred of evidence from history or any recognized documented writer or geneticist to back up any of your claims..

So I will leave this thread with that and you and others with the like mind sets can continue on without me in the discussion prehaps some have learned or will learn a bit from the discussion as it continues on without my input..

perhaps not either way I enjoyed the Chats hope some of you did as well

Oh and something to leave ya with Be nice to your fellow GSP and DK owners
they may not have one exactly like yours but they probably love it and care for it just as much as you do and they probably believe theirs is the best the breed has to offer as well
that was just some last minute food for the mind before I make my exit

Best wishes to all GSP and DK enthusiasts
enjoyed the chat
Dennis Bailey







 

Briarpatch,
I do enjoy talking about GSPs,their history and future. This topic is suggesting we all accept a color(s) based on the fact that DNA was taken from the sire and dam and they are proven to be the parents of the dog in question. This hardly seems to be hard proof. 


Francine





 

I found this thread while doing research to explain my new acquisition. He was all white when he was born. We have started the process of genetic testing to prove his lineage with VetGen in Ann Arbor, MI.

Darn purists expecting GSPs to be purebred!  What jerks! 
 

But seriously folks, not to seem like I am stating the obvious, but there is no such thing as an all white GSP.  GSPs are born with at the very least, liver or black on their heads.  Patches are present at birth.  Only ticking fills in later.

Francine,
 

I am not sure what kind of experience you have with gsp's but in about five minutes i found two examples randomly on the internet. I have posted them for you.

Actualy what I was refering too is that as soon as somone posts a picture of their GSP that looks a little off they get jumped on for having a cross. Who really cares if its a cross or not. Enjoy the pictures of the nice dogs on here and if they try to sell puppies as purebreds that obviously are not then jump on them.

You clearly are not stating the obvious, because I saw this one was pure white.

Now, we are still waiting for the genetics to come back, but I saw the breeding myself and there are not pointers or setters on the property of the breeder.

On a side note, the geneticist at the testing facility seemed to think that this was, in fact, possible and once we prove who the parents are, we will begin testing for "e locus" in both parents.

HEHE,  your (condesending) historical lesson is amusing. I believe you meant to say that the English Pointer was introduced into GSP breeding around the 1860's and was, in fact, instrumental in developing the breed.