Bruce thanks for the info on GSP-l
I too would be interested in hearing Francois facts or opinions on the subject I do not know his background but if he is a geneticist or history buff of the GSP I surely would find his input interesting.

Cathy Since you mentioned Georgina Byrnes' book is generally accepted as the current place to get a good idea of coat color genetics in GSP's. I have a good copy of the book and dont mind typing for sake of the discussion. So here is a little information from her book

PAGE 16 PARAGRAPH #2
" Rough and/or long coats occasionally appear in GSP litters. I have seen such dogs, and photographs of others, in both England and Australia. These may well be perfectly legitimate too. Long coats are recessive to to short , so the same rule applies to long vs short as it does to white verse ticked (Note when she speaking of whites here she is talking of dogs with large white patches) ... the crossbreeding to a long coated dog may have taken place many generations earlier. The fact that long coats seem to be rarer than whites probably indicates that few instances of crossbreeding to long coated breeds have occurred during the breeds developement. It is claimed however (maxwell 1965) that the sire of Frigga V. Berry an important early brood bitch was an Irish setter.
Tricoloured dogs have certainly apppeared in GSP litters. Two very famous and important sires , Artus Sand (germany) and Bob koge ( Denmark) had close relatives described as tricoloured (Maxwell 1965 and Burns 1952) In Artus case it was his sister, Atta Sand and in the case of Bob both his sire Hestehaven's Rap and an unnamed uncle were so coloured. Presumably since the pattern is governed by a recessive gene allele there still may be GSP's carrying the gene. If two such animals chanced to mate , then perfectly legitimate tricoloured pups could appear. No doubt such pups would cause great consternation for their breeder, however! "

there ia a direct quote from Der Deutsch Kurzhaar for ya!!!!!

there are many quotes from Georgina Burns book on websites but they seem to conveniently leave out the certain sections of the book when it pertains to odd or rare colored dogs.


 

Francine,
Here I thought the sytem was set up by people and the standards were written by people just a select group of people ..

The subject is not pointless people are being harassed to the point they are hiding their dogs. And history and genetics that make up the breed surely isnt pointless to me I enjoy reading and learning and discussing all I can of the breed.

You asked when is the point we can stand up and yell hey that aint a Shorthair.
If asking my opinion I would say in my opinion when you have some actual proof of the fact it aint a GSP. Might be a good time rather than just suspicions and guesswork and some are even attempting to distort true history and true genetics to other's to prove their point. Suspicions and guesswork certainly have there place but we need not belittle someones dogs with it simply keep it to ourselves and stay away from the lines or breeders who you have the suspicions of and only deal with breeders and lines you trust.

But again thats just my opinion yell from every mountain top if you feel the need..

truth is breeders are still going to produce these dogs no matter how much you or I or anyone else yells, they are just going to do it somewhat in hidding like the Goering days for now at least.

as others have expressed elsewhere I do wish we could get the AKC to change the coloring code on the AKC registration to allow for these colors to be properly registered so in the furture those that wish to stay away from dogs with these types of odd colorings in their bloodline could easily identify them on their pedigree and those that choose to breed for them could easily identify them as well..The way they are currently registering them is under a different color code than what they actually are, in doing so in the distant future those who do not want this color in their dogs history cannot easily stay away from the blood that carries the genes. Not that the gene may not pop up in another line but it would be easier to detect and attempt to stay away from.if one choose to do so if they were clearly identified in their papers.  

Also I feel We all need to DNA register all our dogs so in decades to come there is no way a mix can creep into the breed.
but these are opinions as well and people will decide for themselves what is best for the time being. Someday people may decide to set up a system in which all dogs in the breed are DNA'ed Now thats a system I would vote for..