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Kimber
Posts:8
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| 05/19/2011 2:01 PM |
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 Can anyone tell me if this dog's Pedigree is worth trying to use as a stud? I don't know a ton about the GSP line but have been thinking of starting a Kennel with my father for a few years now. I already have his JH title ( scored 9\9\9\9 on his last day! ) Now I am starting all the hard work and thought maybe I should check with experts to see if he will even be able to be half the foundation for a kennel startup.
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Kimber
Posts:8
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| 05/19/2011 2:02 PM |
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| http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1727126974509&set=a.1727126694502.2087683.1128452705&type=1 |
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Texas Belle
Austin, TX
MH
Posts:7844
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| 05/19/2011 2:24 PM |
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I am not familiar with the dogs in this pedigree, but it looks like maybe these dogs are all more on the field side only. So, will let others respond on the pedigree.
I do think there are many other things you should be considering if you plan to breed (and maybe you have already thought of these) and some of those areas are 1) health clearances for your stud dog, any dames you plan to breed to, and the health clearances or issues within the pedigree, 2) your dogs conformation (both good and bad as those should be taken into consideration when you pick a dame to breed to), 3) goals and plans for your breeding program (what do you want to accomplish, why are you breeding, etc), 4) vet and feeding expenses associated with breeding (what happens if you have issues), 5) stud contracts, puppy contracts, etc. There is allot of thought and planning that goes into breeding and it isn't clear from your post as to whether you are there or not. Would be glad to go into more detail if you have questions and I am sure others would also be glad to respond as well.
Good luck with your endeavor. I ventured into my first breeding last year and so far have had a stunningly successful first litter so far. It has also been very rewarding, but my breeding and where I want to go with my lines was over 2 years in the planning. Good luck!! |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
   
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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Almost Heaven GSP
Springfield, WV
MH
Posts:731
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| 05/20/2011 1:20 PM |
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| There are some very good and notable dogs in that Ped, but there is much more to breeding than a Pedigree as Bev alludes to. |
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Money will buy a fine dog, but only kindness will make him wag his tail.
Bruce Shaffer
Almost Heaven GSP's
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4450
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| 05/24/2011 4:45 AM |
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Kimber,
if you're asking then you probably don't know the dogs in the pedigree.
Breeding what you don't know could end up costing you money - like keeping pups that no one wants or dealing with unsatisfied customers.
You will run across responsible breeders who will cringe at the thought of breeding paper to paper.
Considerations when breeding are health, not just the health that the parents display, but what may be in the genes, conformation,mostly any disqualifying faults - like teeth/bite, and what crowd you will be appealing to.
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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Kimber
Posts:8
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| 05/24/2011 7:37 AM |
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I have researched these dogs, and do have a good idea what I am getting, I was just looking for second/third opinions, in case I missed something. My plans for now are to finish SrH and MH titles as well as competing in local Shoot n Retrieve meets. If and only IF the dog and I preform as well as needed will i consider taking the next steps towards starting my dream kennel or stud him out.
My dog is a HUGE runner will gladly check the woods a half mile out (just in case I was thinking subconsciously that I would like to know if there were birds over there) , natural retrieving, BIRD CRAZY 24/7, strong willed but eager to please and learn type of hunting tool. He hunts like its his last chance ever every time, full tilt and criss crossing the bird fields many times over. ( I usually just stand in the middle of the bird field because keeping up is impossible on foot) He also willingly enters the water for tossed objects. Inside manners are exceptional, loves cats, dogs, babies, etc. As he is only 1yr old now, it is still uncertain how big he will be but he is already 60lbs + . His sire is 75lbs of lean muscle and his dam is 48lbs. I prefer his big style though I realize many hunters want a slower working close to medium range hunter. ( just about need a horse to keep up with him) That being said, first instinct would be to pair him with a closer working female. However, i think teaching hunting range is much easier to tighten rather than widen. Someone once told me "its like your mom telling you to dress warm, You can always take a layer off, but you can't put on what isn't there." So back to the pairing, smaller size, strong honoring, and into the fire obedience are traits I would like to strengthen, again he is young so what needs accentuating may change to some degree. If one can improve the carefulness of the search, without sacrificing range and style, then a slower paced meticulous hunter would be a potential choice. I am not too picky about markings but black dogs seem to be popular so If a hetero-gened black female could throw the same fire pups I would be looking for and have a chance to produce black markings then I would consider it in my choice. Strong working, looking dogs are more important to me than the color of markings.
Preferably The dam would be from the other side of the competitions, more versatile than strait up field trial to appeal to a larger crowd. ( that would give me more options for improving the obedience right? assuming the dam would be a versatile hunting winner )
Obviously health would be a concern but that I think is a given.
Did I foget to answer anyone's questions ? |
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Texas Belle
Austin, TX
MH
Posts:7844
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| 05/24/2011 4:32 PM |
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Kimber - One of the things you didn't mention was conformation of the dog and bitch. This is extremely important whether you show your dog in the breed ring or not. A balanced well built compact shorthair will hold up much better than one that is not conformationally correct and that is in any performance competition and not just the field. I would also want to keep my dogs within the breed standard. Are you in the US? If so, the breed standard can be found at http://www.gspca.org/Breed/standard.html
The description of your dog tells me he is probably on the large side which does not mean you should not breed him if he is nice in every other way, but it does indicate that you should look at maybe smaller bitches to breed him too as pups that will fall inside the standard will be easier to place. Remember the founders of the breed came up with a standard for a reason.
As for the black color, in the US for AKC that is a disqualification. I don't happen to agree with it, but it still is a DQ today and should be taken into consideration.
I would recommend a couple of very good books that might help you in your exploration of breeding your pup:
Georgina Byrnes book, The German Shorthaired Pointer (maybe hard to find and may be pricey, but worth the read)
Edward M. Gilbert, Jr & Thelma R. Brown, K9 Structure and Terminology
There are many others out there as well, but these I find to be excellent.
Also, for health clearances you will find the recommendations for the US from our parent club here: http://www.gspca.org/Health/index.html
Looks like you are going down the right track though in your thought process. Good luck and keep us posted on your progress and decision. |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4450
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| 05/25/2011 11:12 AM |
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Have you considered testing in NAVHDA?
The dam's side has NAVHDA dogs.
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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Kimber
Posts:8
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| 05/25/2011 12:00 PM |
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| I have considered it but I do not know anything about the testing or where to get started...advice? |
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4450
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| 05/25/2011 1:32 PM |
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http://www.navhda.org/ |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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Kimber
Posts:8
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| 05/26/2011 2:54 PM |
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so here is some further blood line links to my personal Hunting Tool -
http://www.angelfire.com/ks/bluedawnken/spit.html
http://www.angelfire.com/ks/bluedawnken/heide.html
http://www.angelfire.com/ks/bluedawnken/buck.html ( minus the bingo buck dog)
http://www.angelfire.com/ks/bluedawnken/cease.html
http://shootingstarrgsps.com/jordy.html
http://coysblugrasskennel.netkennel.com/PedigreeView.asp?DogID=37665&HDR=VC+SHOOTING+STARR'S+HEIR+JORDAN+MH
If you get a chance to look through those are their any health red flags that I should be watching with my dog?
Last question, is there any link to the markings on a pup that match a relative being linked to style, ability, temperament, etc? I know that there was a recent study done with breeding foxes in Russia that showed as they selected for certain temperaments they also got similar looking/acting kits. Interestingly enough they also found in this study that as they selected for more "dog" like temperaments, " friendly, people needy foxes" their breed started to look more like dogs: shorter noses, curled tails, etc. I don't know the link where I saw it...maybe PBS or something. My reason for asking is that my dog looks almost identical to a dog on his dam's side of the blood line and I wondered if that would mean he is more likely to behave as that dog and his line does? |
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4450
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| 05/26/2011 7:32 PM |
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I don't think so.
What we see is phenotype.
What determines traits is genotype.
So much of temperment is shaped by environment. Style, well that depends on the indivual's perception of style and how they apply it. Ability is shaped by exposure and training but notall dogs are created equal. The more someone knows about working ability the more they know that the person who knows less usually has a lesser expectation. For instance - your high level of performance may bean adaquate level to me. |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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Kimber
Posts:8
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| 05/27/2011 7:45 AM |
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very true, I hadn't thought of it that way. (perception) And I thought I understood phenotype vrs genotype however, my understanding was changed with the release of the fox study because they were reporting that while we have known for some time that certain genes have multiple purposes, that there was now a link to the gene for temperment and the physical traits as well. Still can't find the study, I will post it when I find it.
and just for the Lulz, : while you might view your kennel's blood line as exceptional, other may think they are below average ....  Seriously though, thanks for the info thus far. |
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4450
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| 05/27/2011 8:55 AM |
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very true, I hadn't thought of it that way. (perception) And I thought I understood phenotype vrs genotype however, my understanding was changed with the release of the fox study because they were reporting that while we have known for some time that certain genes have multiple purposes, that there was now a link to the gene for temperment and the physical traits as well. Still can't find the study, I will post it when I find it.
and just for the Lulz, : while you might view your kennel's blood line as exceptional, other may think they are below average ....  Seriously though, thanks for the info thus far.
I have seen the fox study and it is posted somewhere on this forum,quite recently,too.
Francine
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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