Ken,

I do and have done all three types of testing/trialing, concentrating on AKC Hunt Tests and NAVHDA tests.  The Hunt Tests and NAVHDA tests show me the abilities of the dog that will do well in the environment of which I hunt - the Grouse Woods.  Since I do not hunt praire birds, I do not put a lot of emphasis on the Field Trial piece, even thou my dogs have competed in them and done well.

It really comes down to WHERE you hunt, WHAT hunt and HOW you hunt them.  If you do any waterfowl hunting, you are certainly going to want to check out NAVHDA.

um, I wasn't trying to say anything about breeding dogs for show versus feild, wagonmaster. I much prefer dogs who are all feild lines than all show, as well. I recognize that it is a working breed. (though I do think maintaining the "look" is slightly important, if it's one side or the other, I prefer feild)

I thought that german dogs were heavier. However, as I said I might be in my first post, I was wrong, so my point didn't hold any weight anymore. Great, I learned something new.
Its just an interesting debate for me though, to hear what people think about preserving the breed versus changing it to fit slightly different purposes. I don't now what I think about it, I'm just trying to hear both sides. I don't think I should have to hunt to be able to discuss this.

I'll stop though, because I certainly don't want to come across as someone with no experience who thinks they know what they're talking about.

Leah,

Mayhap I should have clarified a bit more.  The "Dual" camp are the ones that go for the higher level titles, not just an entry level title.

Ryan, for your style of hunting perhaps the EP is best.  The GSP is first and foremost a versatile hunter, was developed to be excellent at all aspects of hunting, but it was never expected to be the best in each of those aspects.  My concern is that some of the American FT breeders have narrowed their focus on EP type skills only.  Why not just run EPs?

Hunting on preserves is not remotely the same as wild bird hunting. I have had a preserve membership here in the Twin Cities for about 30 years, we take clients out there to hunt. It is planted game farm raised birds, which don't have nature's training in how to keep from getting eaten by the fox. Wild bird hunting requires a much different dog.

But on the issue of why have the dogs been changed from the original imports, I was in Chicago yesterday at the American Field Publishing Co., which for those of you who do not know, is the publisher of all the results of all the NGSPA and NGPDA trials, and the keeper of the AF Stud Book. I was doing some research on results of past championships, and ran across a report of an early trial called the "Mid-Atlantic Championship," also called the NGSPA Region 2. The Championship has always been for GSP's only. That Championship was held in Evans Mill, NY, and started in 1966. Someone always wrote an article about the trial, and how the dogs ran, and it was apparent from the reports that the early GSP's of those years were mediocre animals. The Championships were one hour stakes. Keith Severin wrote a report of the 5th renewal of the Shooting Dog Championship, which had 28 entries, but no Champion was named because none of the dogs was able to put on a Championship performance. I won't quote the whole thing, because his comments were pretty lengthy, but here is what he said:''Shorthairs in the past, were known as bird finds par excellence, but were heavily criticized - and justly so - for lacking the style, stamin and the general ability to cover ground. While these failings have been partially corrected, there are still serious failings, as manifested by performances in this running of the regional championship."

He went on to say that none of the dogs had the stamina to hunt for the entire hour, something one would want in a hunting dog. And that none of the 28 had been able to find birds, or if they found them, had acceptable manners on the birds.

So that is what the GSP was like back then, the results from the early post-war imports. We have adapted it in this country to be able to hunt as long as need be, and to find and hold birds.

PS the 5th renewal was Sept. 17, 1970.  The Championship title was also withheld in 1968 because no performance met the standard.

You would have to have known those people Francine.  They were pretty hard headed and stubborn. 

The breed seems to attract such folk!  

On that we all agree. 

No, because both FC and CH are competitive, MH is based on a standard, hence easier to obtain.