there ya go guessing what the criteria of such a method would be.....when you really have no idea what kinda critera whoever group in charge would put on such a thing ..
 

and your right the only person my dogs need prove anything to is me to be a breedable dog ,
perhaps you feel the need to prove your dogs to someone else , i personally dont feel that way ...
and isnt that exactly what you are doing your getting the ok to breed from a group because of their evaulation, so your friends in the group evaluates your dogs and says its ok to breed ...Just as mine do .. the only difference is i need not listen to mine and still may find the dog unbreedable or may find it breedable ..some would consider your type of GSP a downgrade from what they have now in case ya didnt know , so are you improving the breed? in somes eyes yes you are in anothers eyes no you are not ...

a diverse breed is beneficial to the breed due to the fact you may need more "run " in your line you can easily find it (if ya know what it is ) , or you may need a better head you can find it and bring it in , or you may wish less range you can add that too , whatever the case may be you can find and add whatever your looking for with a diverse breed to your line or breedings...

 

My dogs have been evaulated by others too my friends in the field , do i need listen to them NO if i choose not to...

The whole evaulation process can be rigged I seen a dog at a hunt test the judge threw a corncob in the air and the owner shot the blank pistol as if they were shooting at a bird , when in reality the dog couldnt find a bird . they thought noone seen ...
but the dog passed its leg why because the owner was friends with the judges ...
I personally wouldnt accept and would be embarrassed to earn a a pass like that but that doesnt mean everyone is like that ...

...conformation shows the judge may opt not to pick the best dog that day if their buddy has a dog on the floor .....all that kinda stuff can be rigged ..
so does passing these types of testing really prove anything about the dog or if it should be bred or not??
a dog can be trained by a good trainer to pass tests doesnt mean it has natural desire or natural talents to be an excellent hunter ...

Briar - I have done allot of Hunt Tests and spent many hours in the conformation ring. I have also done a ton of obedience competitions, and although I have come across favoritism once in a while, for the most part I would say the judges are doing the best job they can to pick or pass the best dogs. It is rare when I see a judge put up a dog that wasn't deserving. Just because they didn't pick my dog that day does not mean they judged poorly. I find that when I take my emotion out of the equation the dog that was put up actually wasn't bad. It may have been different in that the judge preferred a bitch with a less feminine head than mine has or maybe a bit smaller bitch or bigger bitch, etc. Same in Hunt Tests. Do judges sometimes miss things? Yes, but most of the time it is to the detriment of the competitor as opposed to allowing the competitor to earn a leg without a truly qualified dog. I have seen dogs on point and the judge was on the wrong side of the bush and couldn't see it and for whatever reason was not able to score the point. Again, not a perfect system, but for the most part the judges do a pretty darn good job.

I think it is grossly unfair to imply that judges are not doing the best job they can. I know we have some judges on this forum, so what do you guys think?

Pixie - I agree that just requiring a JH is probably not sufficient, but adding parameters like age, etc would certainly help. It is, however, a starting point. Again, the idea should not be to scare people away from the competition, but to improve it. I disagree on the CH. I like the idea that my dog is seen by a variety of judges and compared to a large number of other shorthairs. It gives me a good idea of how my gang measures up against other dogs in the breed. I still do my own critique and it is almost always a tougher critique than anyone else's evaluation of my dogs. I actually like the International shows because they use the European evaluation system and actually are required to do a written critique of your dog and sit down and review it with you. It is a nice system IMHO, and that is why my dogs always have an Intl CH before we ever compete in the AKC.  

I would think you know the answer to this.
Passing any test does not make a dog better than what it truely is. What testing does is show breeders potential breeding stock and provide buyers with a starting place for their search of what they want.
 

Does an evaluation by the owner tell me anything about his dog? Honestly, only a fool would take the opinion of one person - the person who owns the dog. I love the "my dogs are tested where it counts,in the field" selling point but let's face it, hunters have low standards and allow infractions not allowed in the testing environment,and being steady is not on my list of infractions unless the dog doe snot allow the hunter to approach,search and flush.

Please dont get me wrong I would be proud and honored if one of my dogs won a Ch title or a hunt test title of any kind , but i personally dont think it should be required for breeding.
and if it were required I am sure some people would find ways around actually meeting the requirements , say you are the judge for the conformation part and the guy/gal you hunt and train with every weekend comes up with a dog a little short in where it needs to be to actually pass the test are ya gonna fail your buddy's dog ? Perhaps you would doesnt mean every judge throughout the USA would ..there are other reasons as well I feel it wouldnt be a good idea .. but thats just my opinion

 

Thats essentially the same title. I also didnt see anywhere where he said that. All he said was he gets excited when somone sends him a dog from FT decent.

IMO there should be a requirement but it shouldnt be reliable on titles. The dog shouuld be proven in the field, over wild birds.

Well by his statement I ASSUMED that is what he meant since that IS what we were discusing, what or if there should be certain requirements put on the breed to be able to register the dog as a registerable breedable dog such as Bev proposed. Her propsal was to earn a JH and a show Ch title before allowing breeding rights to all GSPs. So I ASSUMED thats what he meant but of course we all know what ASSuMing makes of us ..

So what if a FT group was in charge and decided the minimum requirements were to earn a FC title and pass some sort of conformation test .. would everyone jump on board and say thats a great idea ? what y'all think ?

 

 dylandarling -  You are absolutely right.  At a minimum I like to see hips and elbows, cardiac,  and CERF (eye exam).  Some also do CD (cone degeneration) and Thyroid.  The CD is pretty rare in shorthairs, but some lines have it so testing is recommended.  I do the hips, elbows, CERF and cardiac on dogs I am thinking about breeding.  The hips and elbows are done at 2 years if you do OFA.  CERF is done every year. Cardiac is done at 12 months or older.  You can check out dogs on the OFA website to see if they have been tested and what the test results are assuming of course that the owners have submitted the test results.  Here is a link:

www.offa.org/