ChessieGirl
Dahlonega,GA
JH
Posts:21
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| 02/13/2010 8:16 PM |
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I love our solid black gsp. She is AKC registered. When she gets older we are going to enter her in the field trials. Her mom almost has her senior hunter and her dad has his master hunter. He is liver and roan.
This is Chessie. She is 13wks right now.
This is her mom
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Texas Belle
Austin, TX
MH
Posts:7927
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| 02/13/2010 9:36 PM |
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| Gorgeous, both of them. I love the black and black and white shorthairs too. |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
   
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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MOOSE1
Fruitport, MI
MH
Posts:1790
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| 02/14/2010 6:20 AM |
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I am a bit bias toward blacks as I have one as well. Her mother is BEAUTIFUL! :0) Just encase you didn't know you can show in the conformation ring with blacks in UKC. We are showing our girl in UKC right now and also will be doing the international shows too.  |
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Rajah-APBT- USUV UMJCH Flying High Rajah-TDI Certified
Phoenix-GSP- USJCH UWP GRCH BNJ Shooters Rising Phoenix-CGC Tested
Cody- GSP- AKC/CKC CH UKC UWP GRCH Legacyk n Estate Sunray Minor FDJ CGC Tested
Tucson-UJJ CH Legacyk FlwrCrk The Old Peublo
Rumor-UMJ URO1 GRCH BNJ Rumor Has It-RN RD CGC NA II
www.ezydog.com |
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MelB
MH
Posts:1217
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| 02/14/2010 11:16 AM |
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oh wow that black is very striking! What a beautiful dog momma is, your baby is gorgeous also. I am particular to black, black and white dogs myself (how I have ended up in a house full of liver and white I do not know!!!!). I wouldn't hesitate to get a black and white GSP, but then again I don't do the conformation rings either.
I do feel that ALL colors should be accepted, no matter what the breed. This is just my own opinion on the matter. If the dog is purebred, is within breed standard in all aspects structurally wise (or very close as there is no "perfect" dog), then color should not matter.
I do know that tri-color springers are still not real favorable in the breed rings and it is much harder to win with this color. I guess it makes winning with one that much sweeter! |
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RyanGSP
MH
Posts:446
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| 02/14/2010 11:32 AM |
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| A good dog cant be a bad color even if the AKC has the audacity to ignore the original breed club regulations. |
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4476
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| 02/14/2010 11:40 AM |
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Not exactly true.
If we want to hold to a standard we must produce dogs that fall within that standard.
Color bing of jut one example. |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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RyanGSP
MH
Posts:446
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| 02/14/2010 12:33 PM |
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So should we ignore the standard of the country who created the breed then? They laid the standard down for what this breed should be.
I like my dogs lighter built and bigger running that what the standard calls for but discrimination of whats good and bad based on color? Wasnt and isnt there still a big fight going on based on this among us as humans as well? |
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4476
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| 02/14/2010 12:49 PM |
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I don't ignore the German (FCI) standard.
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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Splat
Illinois (Northern)
MH
Posts:3155
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| 02/15/2010 5:59 AM |
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It does surprise me that black color is a DQ with AKC because the GSP was bred/created from so many different breeds, I am sure that one of those breeds that helped create the GSP has black in it and that black would be a color that could come through.
On the AKC website this is what they say about the creation of the breed:
The origin of the German Shorthaired Pointer is not clear, but the source of the breed seems to have been the German Bird Dog, related to the old Spanish Pointer, and various crossings with local German scent hounds and track and trail dogs. When the Germans introduced the English Pointers to lend elegance to the German Shorthaired Pointer prototype, the result was a utility dog that combined sporting virtue with clean lines, good looks and sound temperament.
Does the English pointer have all kinds of colors black and orange, so why wouldn't the GSP? |
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RyanGSP
MH
Posts:446
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| 02/15/2010 10:27 AM |
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The Spanish Pointer had black in it I beleive not to mention the Blood hound has black in them as well. The development in this breed is so far away it shouldnt matter.
If the Germans can recognize the black, the CKC can recognize the black, and the AKC field test/trials can accept black maybe the AKC show should pull their heads out of each others holes and recognize black too.
Every time its taken to a vote to recognize black there is more and more votes in favor so its only a matter of time.
What I dont want to see, and yes about a year ago I seen it, are Lemon GSP's. I dont know if its the GSP breeders looking for more run, a higher tail, longer gait, higher tailset, or the EP field guys trying to breed some retrieving ability into their pointers, but why they are doing the GSP X EP cross is beyond me. Then trying to hide it. |
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4476
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| 02/15/2010 11:28 AM |
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The Germans did not add the English Pointer. They added the Arkwright Pointer, a solid black Pointer, not to add elegence but to raise the head and to darken eye color.
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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Texas Belle
Austin, TX
MH
Posts:7927
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| 02/15/2010 12:26 PM |
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pixie is right. The Arkwright Pointer was using in the 1920's. Apparently many of the livers were lighter and didn't have the really nice dark brown eyes. There was also concern about the shorthairs nose. Black's did exist though before the Arkwright Pointer. Interestingly enough, although the black and whites are really accepted in Germany in the conformation ring and there have been lots of SGs, the solid black is not preferred by many judges. It is an accepted color, but the judges don't put them up like they do the other colors.
Here is a link to a good article on black GSPs written by a good friend of mine and who is the President of the GSPC of San Antonio which I belong too. If you are a member of the parent club, she usually has an article in the Journal. Patte is an amazing source of the history of the breed in general. I also hope Bruce (one of the moderator's) doesn't mind me posting this link of Patte's article from his website.
www.almostheavengsps.netkennel.com/Content.asp
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4476
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| 02/15/2010 2:44 PM |
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I read the cross took place in 1907 when the first were brought back to Germany.
I am not at home and am working from memory,tho.
And we all know, that's the first to go. |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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Almost Heaven GSP
Springfield, WV
MH
Posts:732
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| 02/15/2010 6:48 PM |
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Posted By Texas Belle on 02/15/2010 12:26 PM
pixie is right. The Arkwright Pointer was using in the 1920's. Apparently many of the livers were lighter and didn't have the really nice dark brown eyes. There was also concern about the shorthairs nose. Black's did exist though before the Arkwright Pointer. Interestingly enough, although the black and whites are really accepted in Germany in the conformation ring and there have been lots of SGs, the solid black is not preferred by many judges. It is an accepted color, but the judges don't put them up like they do the other colors.
Here is a link to a good article on black GSPs written by a good friend of mine and who is the President of the GSPC of San Antonio which I belong too. If you are a member of the parent club, she usually has an article in the Journal. Patte is an amazing source of the history of the breed in general. I also hope Bruce (one of the moderator's) doesn't mind me posting this link of Patte's article from his website.
www.almostheavengsps.netkennel.com/Content.asp
You beat me to it Bev, Thank You! And no, I absolutely do not mind; that is why I got permission from Patte and the GSPCA to use the article on my site, for EDUCATION! Patte is absolutely awesome and has been a great Mentor to me, always there for me when I have a question and always willing to share, and/or refer me to a good reference material! I owe my current Library on Shorthairs and Genetics to her! I can not say enough good about her, or her knowledge of the Breed, both here and across the water. Truly one of the most knowledgable people of the Breed in the World today.
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Money will buy a fine dog, but only kindness will make him wag his tail.
Bruce Shaffer
Almost Heaven GSP's
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MJones
Mars PA
MH
Posts:128
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Splat
Illinois (Northern)
MH
Posts:3155
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| 02/16/2010 6:12 AM |
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| liver means brown....roan is the pattern of brown and white...your dogs in the profile look roan....mine are ticked but yours and mine are livers |
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4476
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| 02/16/2010 7:09 AM |
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I asked someone to look up the info for me in: The Complete German Shorthaired Pointer"
The first breeding was in 1907 with a solid black bitch imported by Herr Bode and Dr. Wachter.
I just read the link above and it says the same.
Francine
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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RyanGSP
MH
Posts:446
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| 02/16/2010 10:40 AM |
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| Liver is a color and Roan is a pattern. When talking GSP's and the color they would be liver with a Roan pattern (intermxing Brown and White). Truly Roan is a mix of a color and white to give a roan effect. I havent seen many GSP's that look like that most of them are White & Liver Ticked not white and Liver Roan. |
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TMerkler
Murfreesboro, TN
MH
Posts:217
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| 02/16/2010 1:37 PM |
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I always thought that they were colors:
Liver & White
Black & Wite
Solid Liver
Solid Black
Then their patterns can be:
Ticked (white background with liver dots here and there - usually have a solid liver head)
Ticked & Patched (white background with liver or black dots here and there - and then larger patched areas of lthe solid color)
Roan (mixed evenly liver & white or black & white)
Roan & Patched (mixed evenly liver & white or black & white - with the larger patched areas of the solid color)
Have I been wrong this whole time? I believe that my Tyler is Black & White roan and patched. I think that my late Dude was also. |
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Terri (Dude's Mom 4ever)
Dude - GSP (RIP 2005)
Tyler - GSP
Charlie - GSP
Zeus - Pit-ador |
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escampbell
MH
Posts:213
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| 02/16/2010 2:28 PM |
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No, you are not wrong, but the paterns do not always work out quite so neatly. For example, liver and white ticked dogs can have heads with blazes. My male GSP is liver and white ticked with a large blaze down the middle of his head. Liver and white ticked GSPs can vary enormously in hue, from quite light or very dark. My first GSP was a true roan - her fur looked silver in the sunlight. My current young black and white could be called a black roan, but I feel she is just very darkly ticked.
Shorthairs can also be liver (or black) and clear white with almost no ticking. This is clear white and is a white factor dog. Dogs can be heavily ptached or have just one small patch. The coat pattern possibilities are endless. |
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Eleanor Campbell
New Jersey
Sydney, Presto, Price, Ozma and Soleil |
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