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Subject: Rescue dog. VERY strong prey drive. Attacked a small dog.
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escampbellUser is Offline

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09/22/2010 3:17 PM  
I used to foster GSPs for my rescue group and, YES, small dog aggression can be an issue. At least one of my fosters was aggressive towards my Sheltie, while just fine with my other GSPs.

Just as the breed can be intolerant of cats, some can be intolerant of small dogs. A well brought up and well socialized GSP WILL make the distinction. (One of my dogs saw met a friend's chihuahua many years ago, raced up to it as if to chase. The tiny thing growled and my GSP hit the brakes, backed off and clearly said, "Oh, it's another dog!" ) But, dogs from shelters or in rescue usually have been poorly brought up and are untrained. They may not.

I see no reason to encourage such dogs to interact with small dogs. I would focus on ignoring small dogs (and dogs in general) and behaving properly. In time, they may learn that small dogs are dogs, but good manners should come first.

Small dogs can indeed trigger prey drive in some dogs. If you have ever competed in agility, you know that a fast moving small bundle of fur, especially one that is white and therefore highly visible, can cause many dogs to alert.

Eleanor in NJ

Eleanor Campbell
New Jersey
Sydney, Presto, Price, Ozma and Soleil
SaxUser is Offline


Posts:17


09/22/2010 3:23 PM  

Thanks, Eleanor.

I agree, obedience and manners come first.  I'd be more than happy just to teach her to ignore.  From what I've seen with her so far, I don't think any previous owners dealt with her behavior, and just let her do whatever she wanted.

She's slowly coming around to the idea that she isn't the boss, this time.  Getting her out of that Alpha dog position is going to take some time and perserverance.

escampbellUser is Offline

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09/22/2010 3:46 PM  
Fostering is NOT easy, but it is very rewarding. It takes time, patience, structure and improvement comes in baby steps. I am pretty sure your analysis of her background is correct. Obedience school, if you are so inclined, might help. And she may never be reliable with small dogs. Honestly, as long as her enocunters are managed and she is polite, who cares if she is the life of canine society or not?

Good luck to you and thanks for fostering!

Eleanor Campbell
New Jersey
Sydney, Presto, Price, Ozma and Soleil
SaxUser is Offline


Posts:17


09/22/2010 3:51 PM  
Well, if she is never reliable with small dogs, I can be OK with that IF she can be 100% reliable with recall. If I can't prevent her from darting off after small animals (and small dogs) through obedience training, it will mean she can never reliably be off-leash. That will be too bad.

We attend obedience school together for the first time tomorrow night.
SplatUser is Offline
Illinois (Northern)
MH
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Posts:3134


09/23/2010 6:04 AM  
So glad to hear you are doing the steps and doing the obedience training...Hopefully she will get the recall you want and can have some off leash freedom, keep it up!

I had a boxer that didn't get along with other dogs except my parent's dog cuz she grew up with her. It was horrible not being able to do the fun dog things with her...I never got the recall I wanted with her (though I did not have internet to research and seak advice at that time)...then one day in her old age our neighbor got a blue healer (which is what my parents dog was) and low and behold she played with her!


Texas BelleUser is Offline
Austin, TX
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Posts:7839


09/23/2010 7:43 AM  
You can get that reliable recall, but it will take allot of work and commitment on your part and probably and ecollar too before you are done. Good luck!! I am glad you are getting her into obedience as I think it will help allot.

Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)

Yellow Rose GSPs

 photo FaunaBISJan20110001cropped_resized_zps96af44b6.jpg  photo DSC_0044_cropped_zps0a25f9ff.jpg  photo DSC_0030a_zps3c822a4a.jpg  photo DSC_0016cropped_zpsab533745.jpg

"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato
pixie beeUser is Offline

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Posts:4450


09/23/2010 7:53 AM  
I see one possible issue with an e-collar. If used at the wrong moment and/or wrong intensity when another dog is involved the situation can actually be hightened with disasterous results at the time and afterwards. If a dog percieves the stimulation/shock as coming from another dog - a dog they are fixating on - this could instill just the opposite of what you are looking to create.

Just food for thought.


"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
therozypozyUser is Offline

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Posts:470


09/23/2010 11:31 AM  

I agree with Beverly you can get a reliable recall with the help of an ecollar, but don't start with the recall training that way.  Obedience training will certainly give you that foundation of how to train the come way before you should ever use an ecollar, because pixie bee is right you don't want to start out using it to stop the agression.  The dog would be definitely confused on where the stimulation from the ecollar is coming from.

Texas BelleUser is Offline
Austin, TX
MH
MH
Posts:7839


09/23/2010 1:21 PM  

I guess I wasn't clear on my post. I did not mean that you should use the ecollar to stop the agression, but instead to enforce your recall when you get to the part of the training where it is time to take your dog off leash. Prior to that point though, you need to do allot of recall work and your dog needs to be 100% on leash in various areas with lots of distractions and 100% when in controlled off leash setting with lots of distractions. You will also need to condition your dog to the ecollar so that your dog does not become collar wise. You will have also worked to find the appropriate level of stimulation prior to using the ecollar to enforce the recall. Then and only then should you use the ecollar to enforce the recall off leash and in an uncontrolled area. There are lot's of good books and videos out for using the ecollar for recalls. Essentially, you let your dog off leash and let him get busy and focused on something else. You then give your recall command and if the dog does not respond, then you press and hold the button on the transmitter and give the dog a continuous stimulation until the dog turns toward you. You then release and praise. It usually only takes one or two times and the dog is golden.  In this scenario you are only training the recall. No other animals should be around when you are training at this point.  

I have also used the ecollar to break my dogs of chasing small game using the same principle. In theory you could use the ecollar to break your dog of chasing after a small dog, but as others have pointed out if you are not careful and good with your timing you could end up with a worse situation than you have today.


Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)

Yellow Rose GSPs

 photo FaunaBISJan20110001cropped_resized_zps96af44b6.jpg  photo DSC_0044_cropped_zps0a25f9ff.jpg  photo DSC_0030a_zps3c822a4a.jpg  photo DSC_0016cropped_zpsab533745.jpg

"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato
SaxUser is Offline


Posts:17


10/01/2010 10:08 AM  
So, we've been attending basic dog training classes. While it is obvious that Karla has had some training before I still think what we are doing will be valuable for us in developing a bond and a proper hierarchy in the relationship.

It is absolutely SURE now that Karla makes a BIG distinction between small dogs and larger dogs, but even then, it seems situationally dependent.

The school has separated smaller dogs and larger dogs into two separate classes. When Karla is in the room with the larger dogs, (about a dozen other dogs) she is really quite well behaved. She can get a bit excited at first, especially if some of the other dogs are not that well controlled. But for the most part, she does well in training, is able to focus well on me, and so on.

Last night, though, partway through class, someone joined the group with a sheltie, and entered the line right next to us. GONE was the focus on training ,ears went up and forward, tail stiffly up, body tense and straining to go over to where the Sheltie was. She was pointing and making lunges to head that way. After about 10 minutes, I was finally able to get her to refocus on the training, and she relaxed quite a bit, but she continually looked back toward that sheltie at every opportunity.

Then again, she went for a car ride last week with a maltese - terrier cross in the front seat, and it was completely a non-issue. I guess it just means control will be a BIG issue for us to develop, because she may react in different ways at different times.

A common theme on our walks together is how LITTLE control the average owner has over their pet. Owners commonly enter the local school yard (where we walk) and immediately unhook the leash from their dog. We have been "charged" by about 5 of these dogs now, and I'm getting tired of protecting my dog (actually, possibly protecting THEIR dog from mine) - and disciplining the dogs of other owners...please, get with it, owners.
SplatUser is Offline
Illinois (Northern)
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Posts:3134


10/01/2010 11:50 AM  
I know our area has leash laws and unless at a dog park dogs must be on a leash...however I know so many owners that do not folloe the law...

SplatUser is Offline
Illinois (Northern)
MH
MH
Posts:3134


10/01/2010 11:50 AM  
I know our area has leash laws and unless at a dog park dogs must be on a leash...however I know so many owners that do not follow the law...

Pointer FanUser is Offline
Westminster, Colorado
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MH
Posts:954


10/03/2010 4:27 PM  
The daycare where Molly goes separates dogs by size. Our big dog park has no rules. Molly has never been agressive toward any dog no matter the size but there have been occasions when small dogs come yipping up at her uncontrolled by their owners that I am amazed that she has shown such restraint.
SaxUser is Offline


Posts:17


12/06/2010 1:53 PM  
Well, after 3 1/2 months of fostering Karla, we fully intended to adopt her, but the rescue society that we got her from wants us to give her back. We've been caring for her, training her, excersizing her, and really making her a part of our family. She is really bonding so well with us and us with her.

When we fostered her, they knew we worked full time, and that we'd work Karla into being used to spending her days alone. And we've ben working hard at it. She's come a long way. But now, they have another person that wants to adopt her that is home 24/7 - works from home, and they awant to give her to that person.

The last 5 homes have given up on Karla - we haven't, and didn't plan to. Why take her away from us? So she can feel abandoned AGAIN?

We're pretty disappointed in them.
SplatUser is Offline
Illinois (Northern)
MH
MH
Posts:3134


12/06/2010 8:27 PM  
That is extremely sad for you...I just hope for Karla's sake this new home won't give up on her...

MeganDUser is Offline
Royal Oak, Michigan
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JH
Posts:33


03/21/2013 3:53 PM  
I realize this is an old thread, but this dog sounds A LOT like my girl Bailey. (she is 5-ish and a rescue, we have had her about 5 months) She has not attacked a dog, but she has way too much interest in little dogs. She climbed over the fence between the big dog and little dog areas at the dog park today (our first visit). luckily she didn't get to the 2 dogs that were there and just on their way out. She was great with all the big dogs, got to run some of her energy out, but she was too interested in the little dogs, and also tried to lay down on a 6 month old black lab puppy (?!?)

We have already tried taking her to obedience class, but she was way too distracted by the other 20 dogs of all sizes and wasn't able to learn anything.

I am THIS CLOSE to hiring a private trainer to work with us once a week (and we work with her inbetween sessions) or even sending her off to a trainer.

We Love her, she is great at home with us and other people and one on one with dogs her size, but if we are ever going to take her anywhere with us, she needs to learn to play well with other groups of dogs and ignore the little ones AND stop climbing fences. On walks we see other dogs and she whines and barks to go see them.

Any and all advice is appreciated...
SaxUser is Offline


Posts:17


03/21/2013 4:16 PM  
As of December 2010, the rescue place relocated Karla to another home (acreage with an owner home full time) and we never heard from them again. After months of care for that dog, daily walks and exercise, training & obedience courses, vet visits, and the other costs associated with caring for her, there was not even a "thank you" for all of our efforts - and, if you folks won't think it's crass to mention, considerable expense on our part. I personally would never deal with that rescue place again.

BTW, I don't know if I ever mentioned it - she came close to killing the little dog she attacked. I found out much later that the vet bills were in the thousands. It was not a playful event.

I have no idea if her behavior ever changed, perhaps she just moved into an environment where it didn't matter. But I bet the neighbors don't have cats anymore.
MeganDUser is Offline
Royal Oak, Michigan
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JH
Posts:33


03/21/2013 5:37 PM  
Sax, What state are you in? I very highly doubt our dog could be the same dog as Karla, But just to ease my mind, as there are too many coincidences... I saw your posts about soiling in the house.. Bailey does that...only when we are not home. and the rescue we got her from also does not allow prong collars (since we have adopted her, we use one, for everyone's safety). And the ages are just about right.

I am so sorry the rescue you worked with placed Karla elsewhere, as it is evident you were committed to helping her be a better dog.
marliqueUser is Offline
Montreal, Qc, Canada

Posts:16


05/02/2013 12:57 PM  
I haven't read the whole thread but this is what I have done while training my dog not to pull on the leash.

First, always keep the dog to your left. Whenever my dog gets a bit too far ahead for my tastes, I do a quick, full-on U-turn to my left, and then I walk in the opposite direction. This means the dog has to scramble to get back in walking position, and then is walking in the opposite direction that he was pulling towards. I think it eventually strikes them as very counter-productive to go too fast for you! It's kind of annoying and yeah, you end up looking pretty silly (walk one way, u-turn, walk the other way, u-turn again, walk the other way... walking the same 20 feet for about 20 minutes...) but eventually you will only need to do this maneuver a few times in a row to become in control. It takes time but it can work, be ready to practice this 30 minutes a day for a few weeks at least.
High5HannaUser is Offline

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MH
Posts:112


05/11/2013 12:04 AM  

Sax,

Your not alone in being turned down by a rescue because your not at home all day.  All I did was mention I may not beable to take the dog with me to work "everyday " like I did with my last GSP ,  They said they the dog was better off with a stay at home mother with three children.   Ended up I do take Hanna to work with me every day . We are together 24 /7.  Shame on them for lack of gratitude for your efforts.   In hindsight restraint  in telling "all"  Is okay with me.  

I went with a breeder and could not be happier.   Hanna has been socilized since she was 9 weeks old . She is very good with the tinniest of dogs . My last GSP had  a problem with small dogs that would bug her . She nipped/ bit at a boston terrier and a jack russel. After that we stopped going to dog parks . She was more intrested in hunting than playing anyway. . Hanna loves both.   

Great advice about turning/ stepping  into the dog to change directions .

Megan

Bailey does that...only when we are not home

  your not at home?    

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Forums > General > Training > Rescue dog. VERY strong prey drive. Attacked a small dog.



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