dgsorensen
JH
Posts:27
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| 07/11/2012 8:24 PM |
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We've had Tucker a little over 2 weeks now and he doesnt seem to be taking to housebreaking too well. As far as the general house accidents I'm sure that will just take time. The problem that I am concerned about is his going in his crate (1 and 2). We have to leave him for about 3-4 hours a day due to work and obiously while we are sleeping. Everytime we come back we have a mess to clean up. I know crate accidents are normal but the problem is he seems to have decided that it's ok to go in his crate. The crate is just big enough for him to stand up and turn around in but not too big. We feed him in his crate so it should be seen as the place he eats.
A couple time we have only left him for 1-2 hours and hes still gone in there. The main issue that concerns us is that he seems to have no problem laying in his own mess. Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't a dog usually not want to do this?
I've been reading a lot on-line about this and the main suggestions I find are smaller crate, feeding him in the crate and making sure it is cleaned out completely so there is not left-over scent. We've tried with and without a crate pad with no difference. Anybody have any other suggestions? Is this just something we are going to have to deal with until he grows out of it? |
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dgsorensen
JH
Posts:27
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| 07/11/2012 9:22 PM |
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| Also he does not whine or anything in his crate at night before he goes. Any thoughts? |
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smatulewicz
Michigan
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Posts:1193
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| 07/11/2012 10:13 PM |
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How old is Tucker? Young pups have very little control over their bodies. It doesn't sound like he understands yet that going is expected to be outside and this could explain why he does not whine to be let out of his kennel when he needs togo. Most dogs do not want to lay in their own, but if his crate is the size you say he has no choice (he also may resort to cleaning up after himself by ingesting his waste).
Do you let him out in the night or require him to go all night without a potty outting? We got Bella at 11 weeks and I let her out every two hours during the night, building to every three hours, to once a night, to having her sleep through the night completely.
The easiest solution until he has more control and learns the expectations would be to let him out more often. Is there anyone you can recruit to help you with this? A neighbor, relative, dog walking service...etc? If not, I'd consider increasing his kennel space for now to include a bed area and a potty area (with puppy pad) so he has a clear difference. This will help him understand not to go where he sleeps (again, right now he has no choice...he does not have the ability to hold it (if he is very young yet)). You can transition the puppy pad out as he gains more control.
It will come with time. Consistency and patience is key. |
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smatulewicz
Michigan
MH
Posts:1193
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| 07/11/2012 10:14 PM |
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Hey is an absolute cutie by the way  |
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DuckFever
Central Oregon
MH
Posts:321
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| 07/12/2012 12:24 AM |
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| ^^^ I do know (like smatulewicz) was saying, that pups generally can't physically control that muscle until around 12 weeks. I'm assuming you make sure he goes to the bathroom as close to possible as him entering his crate for a few hours? Good luck and your pup is definitely a cute one. |
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The worst day of hunting is better than the best day at work. |
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4452
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| 07/12/2012 4:11 AM |
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| He's just a baby. |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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dgsorensen
JH
Posts:27
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| 07/12/2012 6:58 AM |
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First thanks for the compliments. We had him out at an acreage and he loved it but that pic is from after the ride home and he looked less than thrilled that we had to wake him up.
He his almost 13 weeks now and we take him out every 15-20 minutes. Also right before bed regardless of the last time he was out. We have also started limiting water but zit doesn't seem to help. I'm just don't want him to think going in his crate is OK so I'm looking for ways to curb the behavior now.
I think we might just need to get him on a more strict bedtime schedule and get up to let him out more and then increase the time as he gets older. Not much we can do for the few hours we are working. Guess well just have to be patient. He'll get it eventually. |
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smatulewicz
Michigan
MH
Posts:1193
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| 07/12/2012 8:35 AM |
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Unfortunately if it has happened more than a few times he has already learned to deal with going in the crate. That's why I suggest going back to basics adding more room and a puppy pad. I know it seems to suggest encouraging going in there but, again, he is proving he is unable to hold it 3-4 hours. As he builds an understanding of what is expected of him, and better body control you can phase out the space and puppy pad. You want to eliminate setting him up to fail (as Pixie said...he is a baby still), and attmept to prevent at this point. Its not fun setting the night alarm to get up every few hours, but neither is waking to a soiled crate and dog. Even if he could go 3-4 hours at night, during the day he may not be quite as inactive. If he is awake and alert, he will already need to go more than he would need to at night.
They are very smart dogs and each learns differently. When active, Bella was still asking to go out every 15-30 min even at several months old. She continued to build the ability to control and hold it. It truly will come with time. You will see wonders happen once he has the lightbulb moment and understands he is supposed to wait and go outside. Hang in there! |
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tgatto
Lake in the Hills, IL
MH
Posts:411
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| 07/12/2012 8:45 AM |
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I would say that he is just a baby, and will grow out of it - don't stress too much. It is something that you will have to deal with. I would say also, though that you probably will not have to deal with it too long. They grow SO fast!
Great picture. I love the "Big-Head" phase! Too Cute! Enjoy it! |
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It is watching the dogs work that I thoroughly enjoy, and love. I could get by with just watching them work - if it weren't for all the training, and the joy they exhibit when they pick-up, and deilver to hand a bird that they pointed, and you shot. - Todd |
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Texas Belle
Austin, TX
MH
Posts:7846
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| 07/12/2012 9:16 AM |
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| If he is pooping and peeing in his crate it is likely because he has to go and can't hold it. So, I would work allot harder to make sure he goes good before you put him in the crate and be sure you don't leave him for more than a couple of hours. Pretty soon he will be able to hold it for 8 hours, but right now his a baby and just doesn't have the control. Don't think he is intentionally do this because dogs don't think that way. They live in the moment. If you can't get him out every two hours maybe you can setup an area where he has a place to go potty like a litter box. I actually used this with my last litter and they automatically went to the litter box once I showed them what it was for. You show them by putting them in it when they need to pee or poop. I used a flat tray with about 2 inch sides and filled it with pine pellets like you use with rabbits. You can also use pine shavings. Or you could use a piddle pad. There are lots of options. I have often setup a crate attached to an xpen and leave the door off the crate so he can go in and sleep and then get out and play and poop/pee. This phase doesn't last that long and at some point you will be asking yourself about what happened to your little puppy and wishing he hadn't grown up so fast. |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
   
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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Jena
SH
Posts:58
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| 07/12/2012 8:20 PM |
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| Stella still pees in the house and she is almost 5 months. I honestly don't get it. She will drink a TON of water after our walk and then just pee whenever she feels like it. She knows to go outside. I am thinking maybe it hits her all of a sudden and she just can't hold it? Hopefully one day it just clicks. She sometimes just goes a few drops. We take her out every 2 hours and still has accidents. We tell her "no" and take her right outside. |
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smatulewicz
Michigan
MH
Posts:1193
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| 07/12/2012 9:16 PM |
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Jena, I'd say Bella had full understanding of going potty outside within the first week we got her. BUT, it took a bit longer to find the best way to tell us. For a while, I was concerned because it seemed like her way of telling us was to do a little quick squat and let just enough out for us to jump up and let her out. I mean, in her defense, it worked flawlessly LOL. We didn't want to teach her to bark to go out, and we didn't want the bell thing, or her scratching the doors...so I was attempting to teach her to touch the door with her nose. I was worried she just wasn't getting it when overnight it just clicked. She learned she could go stand at the front door (even though we went out the side) because no one could see her at the side door unless we were in the kitchen. But she could be seen waiting at the front door. That progressed into waiting on the kitchen rug by the side door as she could hold her bladder better. Now when she's real frantic she runs from the kitchen to living room whining and gives us the most pitiful look as she passes by
She'll get it. Bella had her "ahah" moment around 4 or 4.5 months. And continued to tweak what she preferred and what worked best into the 5 month range. |
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DLord
Holly Springs, NC
MH
Posts:89
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| 07/13/2012 6:02 AM |
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Jena, I had the same issue with Zoe but it was because she had an "inverted vulva" which the vet told me is quite common and will eventually go away once they develop more. Because of the inverted vulva she kept getting UTI's and this was causing the frequent peeing and not being able to hold it. He put her on 100 mg of amoxicilin every other day and it cleared right up. |
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Jena
SH
Posts:58
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| 07/13/2012 7:39 PM |
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| Oh wow. I am so glad you brought that up, DLord. Stella may actually have that issue. I found this picture on a website after doing some research and she does look pretty identical to the photo. http://www.heartypet.com/blog/?p=47 At what age did Zoe grow out of it? Is she spayed? I read a website that said wait until first heat to spay and one that said there is no scientific evidence to support. I haven't noticed any UTI symptoms. She drinks plenty and goes potty fine. It is just almost like she can't hold it. Is this something I should take her to the vet for or just wait until her 6 month spay? |
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Jena
SH
Posts:58
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| 07/13/2012 7:56 PM |
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| Also, she is always licking herself. She will stop mid walk or play and start licking. I wanted to spay her at 6 months before going into heat. |
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Texas Belle
Austin, TX
MH
Posts:7846
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| 07/13/2012 11:16 PM |
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I would wait to spay her until after she comes into heat the first time. Dogs that are spayed prior to that tend to get leggy and that can lead to muscular issues. As for the UTI, if you suspect it you should take her to the vet. The vet can also diagnose an inverted vulva. The licking could indicate a UTI, but she could also be coming into season too.
BTW bitches come into heat at different times for the first time, some at 6 months and some much later. One of my girls came in the first time at 20 months and another came in at 8 months. It just varies. |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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rannuG
Posts:2
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| 07/14/2012 5:07 AM |
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We got Gunnar at 8 1/2 weeks. He will be 4mos. on the 18th. We take him out btwn. 10 and 12pm. He is whining and crying everyday around 5am. Crate is always soaked. Still peeing on kitchen floor. Often he sits in laundry room by door when he needs to go out and will ring bells that we hung. Vet checked urine and no infection. Some white blood cells which are of no concern. She said kidneys are fine. We take water away around 6pm. We take him out atleast every hour usually more often whether or not he indicates he has to go. He pees EVERYTIME. My biggest concern is the frequent urination. He even wet his crate yesterday and he was only in there for 2 hrs. midday. Vet started him on antiobiotic before she got urine results in case of infection. I know we are training him right as we have had dogs for 20years. Never a GSP, though. I am at wits end as it is hard to enjoy him as he cannot leave kitchen until he is trained and I need him trained before summer is over as we go back to work and school! Vet said we could take him to specialist to see if his plumbing is ok and not going that route!! She thinks that is highly unlikely and feels it is just a training issue. Again, I am concerned about the frequent peeing and if he just cannot hold it or is it just a puppy thing. Our other dogs trained within 2 weeks. And yes, crate is not too big for him. Help!!! |
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smatulewicz
Michigan
MH
Posts:1193
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| 07/14/2012 7:43 AM |
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He is four months old... I think that is the only answer you need. If he is whining he is telling you he needs to go. As I already mentioned, at four months we were still letting Bella out 2-3 times an hour when she was active at that age. Would it be the end of the world to set an alarm at 4 so you can beat him to his whining at 5 and help prevent an accident.
I don't mean to sound harsh, but your post reads like your expectations are way too high, he is a pup. Also, you didn't indicate it, but if he was doing better and got worse...there can be some regression in puppies in training especially potty habits at different stages of puppyhood.
Hang in there, Gunnar is leaning. He needs your patience and consistency to help him learn as best he can |
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rannuG
Posts:2
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| 07/14/2012 8:16 AM |
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My husband pointed out that I hijacked your thread so sorry about that. I guess you are right that my expectations are high. It is just that our other puppies were so easy to housetrain. My concern about taking him out at 4am is that I don't want him to get used to that. My thought has always been if he cries or whines, wait a bit to make sure he just does not want out of the crate, if the crying continues for a minute or so, then go out and take him out. Are GSP's generally easy dogs to housetrain? Unfortunately the breeder that he came from, the house was filthy with several puppies and older dogs running around. We were told that a puppy raised in that kind of environment may also be harder to housetrain as he was used to laying in his own pee. |
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smatulewicz
Michigan
MH
Posts:1193
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| 07/14/2012 8:43 AM |
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If you take him out before he starts the 5 am then he won't have a chance to associate whining with being let out. When you do, don't make any kind of fuss over him. I leashed Bella at the crate so there was no chance of her going anywhere but the door. I made no fuss over her, walked to her potty spot, gave command, once she did I have one "good girl" walked back to the crate unleashed and back to bed. You may end up inadvertently if you don't help him prevent accidents with a pup who just gets used to going in his crate.
In terms of being easy, Bella had a small start at her trainers so unfortunately it sounds like Gunnar's life at the trainer may be making his learned habits a little harder to break. I'd say she fully understood within days (though we got at 11-12 weeks vs 6-8 like most) she was supposed to go outside but it took her well into 4 months to figure out how to let us know.
No worries on commenting on an existing thread. That is what this forums is for. I always fear sounding like a know it all because this is also my first GSP experience. I'm by no means a trainer, just an everyday person with an everyday dog speaking on the things that worked for us. And I may be biased, but I think I have a tremendous girl so I did something right really, hang in there. He will have his light bulb moment when it is all downhill from there |
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