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Subject: New owner, New Pup, Broken Heart
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DLordUser is Offline
Holly Springs, NC
MH
MH
Posts:89


11/30/2012 8:29 AM  

Just from experience, you may not want to give him a rawhide when he is not supervised.  I had an issue with one of my Springer Spaniels getting a piece lodged in her throat when she was a pup and luckily I was there and was able to remove it.

GiustinianiUser is Offline


Posts:12


11/30/2012 9:02 AM  

Duly noted, thanks.  I will correct this.

Texas BelleUser is Offline
Austin, TX
MH
MH
Posts:7927


11/30/2012 9:04 AM  
Dogs are very spatially oriented so it does not surprise me that when you go to a new place with a new crate you have to basically start over with training. This is good to remember for future proofing when you train. Do not expect a dog that sits well and stays in the house to do the same thing in someone elses house. That is why you train in different locations with different distractions.

Twenty minutes for some dogs is not bad at all. It won't be long and he will be happy with the crate if you keep up your training with him. You might also try leaving an old tshirt in the crate with him that you have worn so you smell is there with him. That might help to calm him sooner.

Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)

Yellow Rose GSPs

 photo FaunaBISJan20110001cropped_resized_zps96af44b6.jpg  photo DSC_0044_cropped_zps0a25f9ff.jpg  photo DSC_0030a_zps3c822a4a.jpg  photo DSC_0016cropped_zpsab533745.jpg

"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato
Texas BelleUser is Offline
Austin, TX
MH
MH
Posts:7927


11/30/2012 9:04 AM  
Dogs are very spatially oriented so it does not surprise me that when you go to a new place with a new crate you have to basically start over with training. This is good to remember for future proofing when you train. Do not expect a dog that sits well and stays in the house to do the same thing in someone elses house. That is why you train in different locations with different distractions.

Twenty minutes for some dogs is not bad at all. It won't be long and he will be happy with the crate if you keep up your training with him. You might also try leaving an old tshirt in the crate with him that you have worn so you smell is there with him. That might help to calm him sooner.

Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)

Yellow Rose GSPs

 photo FaunaBISJan20110001cropped_resized_zps96af44b6.jpg  photo DSC_0044_cropped_zps0a25f9ff.jpg  photo DSC_0030a_zps3c822a4a.jpg  photo DSC_0016cropped_zpsab533745.jpg

"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato
smatulewiczUser is Offline
Michigan
MH
MH
Posts:1217


11/30/2012 10:33 AM  
I would say 20 minutes is normal. He is basically wearing himself out. Which is OK, then he'll sleep. It sounds like you are very much on the right track. And yes, they are SUPER smart :) I too think mine could outsmart me if necessary (and she probably does a lot without me even noticing). One thing I would suggest is not showering with praise and treats RIGHT out of the crate. He may grow to anticipate getting out that much more. I don't think him running right to you out of the crate is a negative thing. You're the main thing he wants to see and the barrier is now gone. I would open the door, turn and walk immediately to the door to take Bella out for potty (not much spoken to her, not giving into her excitement). After she pottied and we were back inside...I would have her sit, treat for the potty outting and then give her the attention she wanted. This seemed to work well since she didn't associate all the excitement at that point with exiting the crate.

Keep up the great work!
GiustinianiUser is Offline


Posts:12


11/30/2012 10:45 AM  

Wow, thanks for more terrific insight!  Owners need praise too, especially when stressed about pups, it seems.

I have a short day today, so I didn't go see him at lunch.  We'll see how he does, will edit later.

GiustinianiUser is Offline


Posts:12


12/13/2012 8:01 AM  

So, I wanted to give everyone a little update.

Scout is much better, but it is obvious that he is having some anxiety issues.  I have been working with him, and I have to remind myself that he is a puppy.  It's obvious because he will not pay attention long, unless, I found, I entice him with bits of cheese.

I bought Susan Garrett's Crate Games, and I really appreciate her work.  I did it with him for over an hour on Tuesday, and once he started to get tired and full, it was more difficult.  I also had an issue with him not wanting to come out of the crate.

He recognizes two things: if my hand is on the door, and if there is a treat in my hand.  Right now I am having to take my hand off of the door, and hold a low-value treat in my right hand to get him to come out.  I can get him to come out without a treat, but I have to make it look like I have one.

Sometimes, he comes out for a treat, and dashes right back in, so I am grabbing his collar, and then treat him when out.  I know I need to watch the crate games DVD again, but this is working some.

Now the issue comes when, after about a half an hour or more, I try to get him to go in his crate.  He doesn't, or he runs right past, or he stands up at the entrance, etc.  I have to grab him, and hold him in front, and give him the crate command.

If he's distracted by the cat, too, he won't go in.  I've been able to work through getting him to come out, but sometimes he still comes out on his own.

What I am really trying to understand is if there is something wrong, or do we just keep working on it?  In the DVD she talks about getting the dogs to love their crates, but he is still not over the fact that we have to leave him in there all day while we are at work.

Thanks!

pixie beeUser is Offline

MH
MH
Posts:4476


12/13/2012 8:32 AM  
I am not familiar with the author's method.
What I do is that I actually require the pup/dog to take responsibility.
IMO, if we rely on the dog to decide, we are setting ourselves up for disappointment and can never really be sure what the dog will decide and for how long.
All my dogs, no matter the breed, have always loved their crate and I didn't do the treats.
Here's my mehtod.
During the day I teach the dog to enter the crate, with the door open I enforce staying in the crate. Time frame depends on my schedule and the dog's maturity.
As I see the dog is understanding, I can leave the room,do things around the house. I then leave the house with the dog in the kennel and the door closed, for about 5-10 minutes. I let them scream their heads off - and they will. I do this several times a day, alternating with having them stay in with the door open. I do not keep my dogs in the kennel overnight - they sleep with in our room, door closed.
This is purely a day time activity until the dog can handle overnighters.
In about a month the screaming stops and the dog can be left in for longer periods - like to the supermarket.As long as I can't hear it, I'm Ok with it. It does pull at my heart string to hear them carry on.
All my dogs have never required being locked in overnight but do not care if they are and they have no separation issues.
FWIW, I don't trust a dog, unsupervised until about 1 1/2 yo and that's for about 2 minutes and then expanded on as maturity sets in.

this takes time, don't dispair. I find the total process takes about 3 months.
Then we forget about it and complain about the next puppy we get, swearing that this is the noisiest,cryiest puppy ever.
The first 12 months we own a dog is the toughest.

good luck


"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
SplatUser is Offline
Illinois (Northern)
MH
MH
Posts:3155


12/13/2012 9:25 AM  
I have not done crate games either... I use more or less Pixies method... during the day from time to time I put them in the crate usually with a kong stuffed with pb and an antler and then I go about my business doing house work...sometimes I will even go outside to do outdoor chores... then I open the crate door sometimes they are sleeping and they stay in for a bit other times they come right out... whenever they come out I put them outside for a potty right away...

If the pup doesn't want to come out I don't make them, the crate is their safe place so if they want to stay in it then it is fine with me... I never give a treat fro coming out, I would think this would be build anxiety cuz the dog would look forward to coming out too much...

SplatUser is Offline
Illinois (Northern)
MH
MH
Posts:3155


12/13/2012 9:27 AM  
BTW with our new pup (doxie mix) my husband was on nights so sleeping in the morning... I went to work kids went to school and put the puppy in the crate... husband said she cried the entire 3 hours he tried to sleep... when he came out to the living room she stopped so he got coffee going and then let her out and put her out to potty... the next day she made a small peep and then nothing... my husband was very happy about that cuz he got to sleep!

GiustinianiUser is Offline


Posts:12


12/13/2012 1:14 PM  

 Unfortuantely I do not have the option to stay at home with him except weekends, and I am gone for 10 hrs.

So far, no accidents in the crate at all, but a few on the carpet that we keep to a minimum by making sure he gets out often.

Thanks for your help, I am going to keep patient with him until he is older.

SplatUser is Offline
Illinois (Northern)
MH
MH
Posts:3155


12/13/2012 2:13 PM  
Depending on my husbands schedule depends if we have to leave the pup all day in the crate or not... there isn't really anything you can do about it... if we have to be gone all day then the pup goes in the crate whether she likes it or not cuz I can't trust her not to get into stuff...

So basically you have to put him in it for the 10 hours... then on the weekends when you are home you still need to put him in it while you do house work and such, just to get them used to being in it whether you are gone or not...

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