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weerubbertummy
Ayrshire, Scotland
MH
Posts:726
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| 01/31/2012 1:10 PM |
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I took Keely to meet a gundog club trainer on Sunday, just a puppy session to introduce her to him and also to be given a rundown of what i should be concentrating on. I plan to do some flushing/beating at the very least with Keely, although ideally i would like to learn all aspects, including shooting, assuming Keely takes to it.
What i'm curious about is that i'm not sure what experience the trainer has with pointers. He works with springers and has been involved in hunting/shooting for 45 years approx. He has suggested some exercises in encouraging Keely to want to stay close to me (which i've been doing as a matter of course anyway) but seemed to think that there was the same possibility of a gsp "sticking" to it's owner as a springer spaniel. I always thought a gsp was capable of this but a little more inclined towards veering off and following it's own interests than a springer - basically that a gsp is eager to please, but still more headstrong and more easily distracted than a springer. I'm doing puppy socialisation/agility intro classes with Keely but felt that the training may be a little bit too generalised for her in the longterm, and that a working/focussed training approach may be better. What are everybody's thoughts on this? (Bearing in mind that i know absolutely nothing about hunting/gundog work). |
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Miss you forever Kintra baby xxx |
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smatulewicz
Michigan
MH
Posts:1187
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| 01/31/2012 1:26 PM |
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I'm jealous of the training options you have! We have nothing so I am doing it all on my own. I run into GSP owners during off leash time at the dog park often and all of course have differing opinions and remarks to throw my way in regard to hunting. I'm anxious to hear the responses you get because my recently I was told I was ruining my dogs hunting instincts by requiring her to stay close. I thought it would be useful to my husband in the field that she is learning to follow her nose but to fall back when I give the "stay close" command. We haven't started any hunting training but I have tried to utilize obedience ideas that can double in the woods. I sure hope I'm not ruining her chances (though the hubbs did say it isn't the end of the world if she doesn't take to it) lol.
Side note, I would love to agility train her. She seeks out obstacles and is so happy going through things or weaving between trees. If you learn any useful training tidbits pass them my way  |
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weerubbertummy
Ayrshire, Scotland
MH
Posts:726
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| 01/31/2012 2:05 PM |
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I will do! To be honest we dont really have a lot in this area - i was always on the lookout for agility classes for Kintra but nothing was available til just before we lost her.
I stay in the central belt of Scotland but a lot of the hunting opportunities are confined to estates in the highlands, islands, borders and dumfries area so i've a lot of travelling to do if i want to pursue it. I know what you mean about the conflicting ideas about what to do training-wise, everyone seems to have different ideas. I was told that gsps "range-out" wide but that it's important to limit this is i plan to flush, so my dog doesnt interfere with the neighbouring dog etc I really just plan to train her well in obedience and give her the opportunity to try different things and i'll pursue what she enjoys/exceeds at most. I've no plans to put any pressure on her - truth be known, my health wont allow me to take any activity too far anyway. I'll def pass on any info i get to you x |
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Miss you forever Kintra baby xxx |
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4448
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| 01/31/2012 2:37 PM |
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ok - here's my opinion:
wee -the way you will be usinng Keely is exactly what retrievers do. Am I correct on that?
Train your dog like a retriever and that's what you'll get.
I see nothing wrong with this.
Now, pointers differ in several ways to retrievers - retrievers are bred to be closer working,bred to accept more handling, trained to use eyes first nose second.
Pointers were bred to range away from the handler,hold (pin)the bird,bred to be independent - they don't take to all the handling well,and are trained to use their nose.
Depending on your cover/terrain will determine the range and independence of your pointing dog.
Hope that helps.
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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Texas Belle
Austin, TX
MH
Posts:7834
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| 01/31/2012 3:53 PM |
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| Ditto what pixie said. |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
   
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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weerubbertummy
Ayrshire, Scotland
MH
Posts:726
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| 02/01/2012 1:51 AM |
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Thats what i'm concerned about. I would like to give her the chance to hunt, point, flush and retrieve - and i would like to learn to hunt/shoot also. But i kinda got the impression that the trainer was thinking along the lines of training her mainly to retrieve, and only going as far as joining a beating party (if thats the correct term).
I would really like to learn it all, but the fact that he was talking about her being inclined to range wide and that we have to work on bringing her in closer sounds to my unknowledgable ears that he's concentrating on the retrieving more than the pointing aspect. Does it seem that way to you, or is bringing a dog closer the first consideration in train an hpr for the field? Jeez, it's so obvious i dont have the first clue what i'm talking about :0/ |
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Miss you forever Kintra baby xxx |
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4448
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| 02/01/2012 4:45 AM |
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If you will using her at clubs then you will ned to train the way the trainer suggests.
If you are (also) going to hunt on your own then you may want to train both ways.
Retrievers flush so the dog needs to be flushing birds within gun range - that's about 30m or so and the dog usually is with 15m. \Pointers hold the bird until the hunter arives so the dog can be a much greater distance from the hunter. Pointers actually handle birds where retrievers don't b/c you can't handle what just flew away.
So, a pointer can learn to pin a runner or push that bird back towards you causing the bird to flush within gun range.
If you are wanting a personal gundog then you will eed to begin getting her to use that nose and retrieve. For the club you will need to work on patince and steadiness.
A good way to begin is to throw seen bumpers into cover and have her hunt them up gradually transitioning to unseen.
Also don't let her break at the throw - have her wait longer and longer to make the retrieve - you can teach her the memory retrieves by dropping a bumper, walking away,while her back is too the bumper say BACK.
I do suggest a program to follow and retriever folk are keen on sequential learning which works great.
Keep in mind that pointers are nose oriented.
No matter what you guys do - you will ALL have fun doing it |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4448
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| 02/01/2012 5:30 AM |
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Maybe this site can help:
http://www.versatilehpr.com/forum/ |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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weerubbertummy
Ayrshire, Scotland
MH
Posts:726
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| 02/01/2012 11:58 AM |
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Thanks, your info is a great help. It's amazing how difficult it can be to piece together how to train until someone experienced puts it into sequential terms - even some books fall short on that and seem to assume that the (inexperienced) reader already knows something.
I've got to say, i've been spending a lot of time in the horse field (empty for a few months now) and she really picks up on foxes and birds in the hedgerows, but she's still at that age where she stays close but is showing more interest in going further. I'm keen to decide what i want her to do and condition her accordingly while she is still wanted to be near me. It's all great fun cos i've actually got the time to work on these things with her (didnt have so much time with Kintra).
On another note, i took her into the busy main street in Ayr today and she didnt lift her nose from the ground, although she was interested in passing people she was more interested in the smells. |
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Miss you forever Kintra baby xxx |
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weerubbertummy
Ayrshire, Scotland
MH
Posts:726
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| 02/01/2012 12:01 PM |
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Doh  is a bumper the same thing as a dummy? I have a canvas dummy that i havent introduced her to yet, would that be suitable for throwing into cover?
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Miss you forever Kintra baby xxx |
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4448
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| 02/01/2012 12:24 PM |
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Absolutely!
If you have it start using it.
First get her used to marks - don't throw far - it's better to extend throws as they build their confidence.Hold her back,use a word,like whoa,wait,sit,etc, then send-extending the time as she gets better at it - ideally, you want to send when you don't need to hold her back.
You can throw into cover when her desire has been built up so that she really,really,really wants to find it,at first don't throw into high cover or too deep,easy then build as confidence grows.
This is a good time to into the hold - if you haven't already.At this point,building drive and nose, going out to the dummy is great, you cn always put her on a check cord if she starts the keep away game.
There are ways to work on steadiness,too. Whoa or sit her, toss the dummy a few feet and have her wait a second,then 2 seconds,etc before you send for the retrieve.
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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