smatulewicz
Michigan
MH
Posts:1216
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| 01/29/2012 9:40 AM |
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As always thank you for all of the input. I have a couple more questions...
We feed her in her kennel now as it was recommended to us we do so since it is her safe place (also early on to help her learn that her kennel was a safe place which she does not need this anymore as she knows and loves her kennel). Since during the summers it will be often not practical that she even have her kennel needless say eat in her kennel...should I start feeding her out of her kennel and have that be the routine.
My next question is, those of you whose dogs tolerate so much interaction while eating, did they ever show signs of anxiety or aggression while eating as puppies...or where they always fairly laid back while eating. I understand where if you have never experienced the issue it can seem crazy to be concerned about it, or easy to believe the owner is causing it. My hope is to be hearing from those that maybe experienced something like this, and managed to have a dog that is now carefree and comfortable while eating.
The TV is always on while she eats. When I say she eats in peace, i mean do not interact with her 1. because I don't want to increase her anxiety and 2. I don't want to reinforce the anxiety. I am often in the room, just not interacting. I try to walk all around from kitchen to living room (the two are connected her kennel being in the living room). friday night I had friends over and she ate in her kennel as usual but to the commotion of ladies chatting and laughing and catching up. But again, no on interacted with her while she was eating.
In my training with Bella, I try to not set her up to fail. And I'm not sure it is fair on my end to be throwing too much at her while she is eating to try and condition her, as I can tell by her body language when she is somewhat comfortable and other times very anxious (though there is very little change in the routine for me to pin point exactly what it is making her anxious). |
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Texas Belle
Austin, TX
MH
Posts:7921
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| 01/29/2012 10:00 AM |
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I know and understand the idea of feeding in a kennel, but I have never done it because I have never had any trouble kennel training without it (except with my one shorthair that is claustrophobic, and feeding in kennel won't fix that one). Every time I add a new puppy (I have 4 shorthairs now), we go through a feeding adjustment period. I have never had one nervous with me, but then I think mine have always been more concerned about the new dog. With my last puppy (she was from my lbreeding so I have her mother, uncle and aunt) she tried to get into everyone elses food and my other dogs tried to push her off her food for a few days (and yes there was some growls and snarls and flenching). I would just would take which ever dog was in the wrong gently by the collar and lead them back to their food. No harsh corrections or any verbal corrections, but redirected them back. Now I can stand back and release them to their individual bowls and they never try to encroach on anyone else. Of course my youngster and her uncle think it is their duty to do the dishes whenever anyone is done eating, but even there they have a hierarchy. Uncle Ringo gets to cleanup the bowl before Fauna gets her turn. It is pretty funny to watch.
Anyway, if she is happy in her crate I would start feeding her wherever you want to, but pick a place and stick to it. Routine. routine, routine will make your life easy.
It is good that you are trying not to setup her up to fail, but also do not worry if something does go wrong once in a while. Remember mistakes are your chance to teach. As she is a puppy, I agree that taking things slowly and not overwhelming her is good. At some point in the future you can do proofing, but let her figure things out without allot of distractions right now.
I also know that this may not be the case, but I will tell you that the tone of your posts seems to belie your worry. Think about your mood, emotions, etc when you are feeding. Even a small anxious thought can be transferred to your dog. Trust her and have confidence, but also think about the environment. Is there anything that could be causing her concern? It may simply be that she cannot see around her if the crate is enclosed, or she may be nervous in the crate because her back is to the opening of the crate when she eats (most dogs like to face the door of the crate), or something else. Put yourself he her head for a few minutes and look at it from her perspective. |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
   
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4474
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| 01/29/2012 3:33 PM |
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Yes, feed her anywhere.
My hope is to be hearing from those that maybe experienced something like this, and managed to have a dog that is now carefree and comfortable while eating.
Why? How will information that does not apply to your dog help your dog?
Why is there such a concern about anxiety?
Maybe you should have your guests interact with her when she is eating?
What signs of anxiety is she showing and when?
My dogs eat with their tails in a lowered postion -
in a relaxed position.
This whole thing about failure - I think you're taking it too far.
She's eating - how can she fail?
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4474
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| 01/29/2012 3:47 PM |
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Is it possible for you to take a video of feeding time?
This would present a clear picture.
Thanks,
Francine |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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smatulewicz
Michigan
MH
Posts:1216
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| 01/29/2012 9:24 PM |
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Why? How will information that does not apply to your dog help your dog?
If that is the case, why would anyone bother asking anything on here? Sometimes training individual dogs is a case of trial and error, correct? This is why some things work for some and others for others. Which is also why there are such differing opinions about anything and everything - feed in kennel, feed in noise, leave in peace, provide commotion, dogs shouldn't eat in less than 15 min, 5 minutes is normal...etc. Having a dog truly is like raising a child. Parents who have had children... can sit back and find humor in the newbie parents taking their child to the doctor over every little sniffle and hugging them tightly over every little fall  I'm that newbie parent (to some degree, I understand the importance of being a strong leader for my dog) lol
Her body language - tense, hair raised, pausing to cautiously watch any noise or movement that comes near her bowl with the appearance she is ready to protect if necessary. much easier to understand if seen so the video would be a good idea. If progress doesn't continue, I may just do this.
However, I do think feeding in her kennel helped her for awhile, but I think as she has gotten older (5 months now) she does not like having her back to the surroundings. The past two nights she has been fed in the kitchen - tonight I made it point to walk by several times, slightly brushing her as I went by), doing dishes right near by. I even noticed her sitting a few times during her meal which does not happen often. It seemed much better. We are going to continue with this and hope it helps ease her.
Side note - she seems to have turned from cuddly puppy to gangly inbetween pup over night. We cannot believe how big she is! I think its just a few months before she is about as tall as she will be. I better start snapping all the pics I can before she is a big girl and puppyhood is gone |
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4474
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| 01/30/2012 4:28 AM |
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Have you checked into dog behaviorists?
I think this is out of the league of a forum.
Best of luck and looking forward to hearing progres reports.
Francine |
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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High5Hanna
MH
Posts:116
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| 01/30/2012 7:40 PM |
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I'm having the opposite problem with Hanna, Im taking her to the Vet On Feb, first so Ill find out then if shes under weight. My last GSP woolfed her food down .The breeder said it was because of her being picked on in the litter. She recomended puting some vinegar in the bowl. I never had to do that she settled down fairly fast.
I liked the suggestions I read in The Book the Puppy whisperer. He recommended hand feeding the entire meal and then taking the bowl away and placing a piece of Chicken in it and give it back . That way they correlate the bowl being taken with something good. Not sure if the first step was to throw a piece of chicken in the bowl while eating then try taking the bowl away.
I have to hand feed Hanna to get her to eat more.
I keep looking at your pups eye. Its a great contrast. She has a great face. |
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smatulewicz
Michigan
MH
Posts:1216
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| 01/30/2012 8:02 PM |
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I hope everything goes OK at the vet for miss Hanna. Is she ever a cutie. Weight with this breed can be an issue - we know Bella is healthy and good weight for her age, but of course people who don't know the breed at the dog park make comments about her being "so thin". They are a lean breed.
Have you tried switching foods to see if there is something she may respond to better? It's about the only help I can offer as obviously eating is not Bella's issue lol. Does she respond well to treats? I wonder if you put an amount of food in her bowl, and excite and entice her to eat that amount and then reward with a treat...if she will pick up on the fact that eating her dinner out of her bowl is a good thing.
I am seeing major differences in Bella at day three of eating in the kitchen vs in her kennel. Tonight, she had a bit of her soon to be new food mixed in as TSC never has her former brand in stock and changing foods means no more 15 minute drive when we can now go to the feed store that is within walking distance - who is always well stocked. I think since there were new interesting kibbles in her bowl, she sat to chew her food more than I have ever seen her. She even stopped eating to run up and greet my husband with her bum wagging as it usually is.
We used to hand feed her as a pup from time to time, swapping pouring in bowl and hand feeding in hopes she would equate people being around as a good thing while she is eating, but probably mistakenly caused some anxiety in the early stages that has lingered despite keeping things quite routine after her snap incident. Since we moved her to the kitchen, sometimes when I walk by I will drop a bit of treat in her bowl.
Anyway... I'm hopeful she's getting used to the idea that no one is taking her food. I forgot to add that she was the runt of a rather large litter, and this probably plays a huge role as I imagine she was the one always fighting for her share.
Oh I just love her eyes too! I call her miss Honey Eyes sometimes. Though, they are darkening with age of course, they are still so bright and beautiful. Not brown, but not quite yellow. |
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Texas Belle
Austin, TX
MH
Posts:7921
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| 01/30/2012 10:55 PM |
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| Being the runt has nothing to do with her eating the way she does. It may make her scrappy, but does not impact the eating. The runt of my last litter was a finicky eater and sometimes didn't even eat until she was over a year. Now she is much better, but she still eats slowly and gets distracted. Now the puppy I kept from later who was the largest is a chow hound most of the time, but she too does not eat all that fast. So it really just depends on the dog. Glad she is doing better. I bet she was nervous because she had her back to the door of the crate. |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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Splat
Illinois (Northern)
MH
Posts:3154
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| 02/01/2012 6:39 AM |
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I do believe that owners can cause a lot of the dogs eating issues....think about it since birth the pup is eating with other dogs...all the pups in its litter...from going on most breeders I know they like to watch feeding and most even interact with the pups feedings...if they notice one pup is having a hard time getting food they may pull one pup off a teet to put another one on...so from a young age pups are used to eating with other dogs and humans being around...also hungry pups are not quiet at all so commotion is normal at feeding time...
I have heard people use the feeding in the crate thing but I have never done it cuz I only see it for dogs with issues...if you got your pup as a young pup you shouldn't of had to do that...there are other ways to get them to like their crate...
which that goes back to normal pup behavior dogs feel safe in a den like situation...so if from day one of bringing your pup home your have a crate fro them and use it they get used to it easily enough....they will go through a crying phase because they are used to being in a litter and not alone, but as long as you ignore them and let them work it out themselves they get over it pretty fast...
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4474
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| 02/01/2012 6:49 AM |
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I can blame a lot of feeding issues, like what is being experienced by the OP, on a breeder.
Not saying this breeder is at fault.
Just saying this pup's behavior could have been caused by an irresponsible breeder - not everyone understands dog behavior and it's possible this breeder does not.
Breeders should be present at feeding time to observe and control.
The OP does not say where her advice has come from? She has mentioned several conflicting stategies for the proper way to raise and train a pup.
I would like to know what the breeder's advice has been.
Anyway - this pup's issues can be an easy fix in the hands of someone who has confidence and knowledge.
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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smatulewicz
Michigan
MH
Posts:1216
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| 02/01/2012 7:00 AM |
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She is doing better. I am finding myself turning to the breeder less for questions due to the obvious conflicting views. I'm not sure feeding was monitored. Bells actually came to us with formerly broken and now healed ribs that the vet believes was just due to a large rough litter. Breeder didn't mention it to us, and when I let her know she said she didn't know and was surprised her vet didn't catch it.
So I'm not sure bells didn't have to fight for her portion. She is also the one who suggested we feed in kennel and stop making her work for her food (but having her sit and wait in my opinion is just manners but also a little work I suppose for a pup.... But we still require this). It just was another way we figured to help her love her kennel but in retrospect I think she did better before we started that.
So no more kennel feeding... She is eating in the kitchen and doing fine with the commotion. When I walk by I will sometimes drop a bit of treat in and I even saw a tail wag while eating this morning lol |
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pixie bee
MH
Posts:4474
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| 02/01/2012 7:32 AM |
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Broken ribs????
I'm so sorry for your pup and thankful that she found YOU.
This breeder is one of the most irrsponsible I have ever heard.
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"Time with my dogs clears my mind, renews my faith, and lets me see the world as it is. My only regret loving dogs as I do, is the misery of their early departure." Robert G. Wehle
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Texas Belle
Austin, TX
MH
Posts:7921
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| 02/01/2012 7:50 AM |
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| Wow, broken ribs. Halo had 11 puppies and they were rough, but never rough enough to break ribs. I too am glad she found you. |
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Bev Quarles, the Pointer Sisters (Belle and Halo), the Outlaw GSP (Johnny Ringo) and the little Princess (Fauna)
Yellow Rose GSPs
"A dog has the soul of a philosopher." - Plato |
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smatulewicz
Michigan
MH
Posts:1216
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| 02/01/2012 8:51 AM |
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We should have waited to go with the breeder we had researched, but the mood hit at the time I came across her litter and the pics of her drew me in and when we met her she instantly stole my heart. Pros and cons but she's ours and I'm happy for it.
We noticed her back ribs sticking out a little shortly after we got home with her (mistly niticable when eating or drinking) but we have never had a large lean breed pup so we thought maybe they were her little floaters or something... But sure enough upon her first vet visit he said they seem to be that way due to an old injury. Completely healed but will always stick out a little.... Should Not be vulnerable to another break or cause any internal vulnerabilities. Just makes her extra special Pokies and all |
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Splat
Illinois (Northern)
MH
Posts:3154
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| 02/02/2012 5:28 AM |
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Glad to hear things are going good with feeding in the kitchen and even getting a tail wag!
Poor pup having the broken rib, but glad it is all better and won't cause her and issues... |
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High5Hanna
MH
Posts:116
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| 02/08/2012 7:12 PM |
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Looks like Bella is doing lots better! Yea! Bella is the name of Hanna's mother ! Father is "Buster"
Sad about Bellas ribs . That must have hurt. My Mind jumps to "I hope she ddn't get kicked" BUT! Accidents do happen . Shenna my last GSP ran after a cat and broke a tooth on a metal lawn chair at year one. I saw her plow into it. When I took her into a Vet who did root canals he looked at me and said "It Looks like someone hit her in the mouth with a baseball bat" . Not me of course ? But someone. There was no injury to the outside of the mouth at all . I think that comment was inappropriate.
About the runt issue. My last GSP did have a few bite marks on her from litter bullying, ( LOL) I'm no expert on feeding and runts of the litter but needing to protect ones food when i'ts being taken away and having to fight for it makes sense to me. The other thought was an Alpha behavior.
Hanna's weight is fine. The Vet said some of the same things you suggested about her being a thinner breed. I did change her food from Iams Smart Puppy the breeder had her on to Acana wild prarie. When I brought home the trail size bag she fought me for it so I thought . Wow this is the food.! I went and bought a big bag. Didn't take long for her to get Ho hum over it . The Vet said when she gets hungry enough she'll eat regardless of the brand of food.
In the mean time I sprinkle Puppy crack on the kibble and make sweet potato surprise for her. And give her some of my salad. .  |
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smatulewicz
Michigan
MH
Posts:1216
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| 02/11/2012 8:17 PM |
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I know... Once we found out I tried not to think of all the scenarios that could have caused it. My hope is a rough large litter and nothing worse. The family seemed very kind and her parents both healthy and well mannered...
She is doing great. She is completely on her new food and it only calls for 1 and 3/4 cups a day which seems not much... So since it is still very much so winter here we are giving her 2.5 cups per day. Still seems to me she could stand more. Though, she seems a good weight. She eats her new food even faster though, but there is less and I think she likes it more
No issues since stopping feeding in kennel. Will never recommend that to anyone unless they need to teach their pup to enjoy its kennel. |
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smatulewicz
Michigan
MH
Posts:1216
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| 02/11/2012 8:19 PM |
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How is Hannah's eating? Ps... What is puppy crack? That seems to be about anything food related in Bella's world  |
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